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exploring the bazaar your e-ticket ride

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is the world of the paranormal

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strap yourself in as we traverse the

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universe exploring the unexplained UFO

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ghost lost world

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cryptozoology as well as other

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dimensions it's time to take back the

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NASA night

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now your electrifying hosts of exploring

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the bizarre Timothy Begley and Kings

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Wars good evening citizens of America

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over the future of your palace oh my god

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these guys are really weird ah they're

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all dressed in black and they've got

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glowing eyes

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and and look at their hats Tim those

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hats looked at four five feet tall and

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their black hearse is parked at the side

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of the road they're dragging me to it

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but look look look up in the sky their

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UFOs and it looks like they will save me

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oh they saved me Tim you know any time I

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hear somebody say you know do not panic

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I think that's the time really when we

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should panic well I could have hid under

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their hats they were so tall are they

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men in black or Abraham Lincoln well

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that's a good that's a good question I I

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think they're men in black that hearse

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gave him away

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either that or they were the leftover a

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crew from a phantasm the the horror

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movie franchise mud where one of my

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favorites well I was kind of

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disappointed in the last one but I'm not

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disappointed in our guest that tonight

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who have written two very wonderful

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books one I have here in my

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and as you can tell as I flip through

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the pages and tell everybody else not to

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make any sounds while we're broadcasting

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but I can do nothing like a physical

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book to hold yeah yes indeed but I also

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have a a Kindle or a a P pdf version a

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version of the other book which and both

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of them are stunners in their own

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category so Tim take it away

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tell us who we're going to have on

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tonight so we can get this festival of

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light and knowledge on the road why it

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would be my pleasure Tim tonight we have

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with us first of all dr. Irena Scott who

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received her PhD from the University of

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Missouri in Physiology and did

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postdoctoral research at Cornell

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University now dr. Scott has worked for

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the Defense Intelligence Agency and the

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Arrowsmith hitter Smith aerospace Center

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in satellite photography that's it folks

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I'm out for the night she was also

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volunteer astronomer at the Ohio State

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University radio Observatory and has

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taken flying lessons her publications

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include books and works in scientific

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journals magazines newspapers and she

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was a correspondent for Popular

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Mechanics magazine served on the MUFON

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Board of Directors 1993 to the year 2000

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and her recent book that we're talking

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about which is to be released on June

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1st is UFOs today seventy years of Lies

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disinformation and government cover-up

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and our other guest is Linda Zimmerman

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now Linda is a research chemist turned

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award-winning author of 30 books on

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science history and the paranormal and

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fiction her ghost investigator series of

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books led to comic books based on her

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cases and as she she has a novel and I'm

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not sure how you pronounce this it looks

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like almost like ancient here he ate a

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Hebrew word

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when the HVGA honey brown said well no

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no and it's good to Hudson Valley zombie

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apocalypse ah there you go

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sorry second outfit there you go and was

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turned into a graphic novel and she

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recently starred in an award-winning

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documentary in the night sky

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based on her research into UFO sightings

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in the Hudson Valley

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and her book that both de Beckley and I

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have is called more Hudson Valley UFOs

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so dr. Scott Linda Zimmerman thank you

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very much for being with us tonight on

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exploring the bizarre wonderful

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wonderful movie I had one of the best

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films that I have seen on a single UFO

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uh well I wouldn't call it yeah case

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well I guess you we can go flap flap

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yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah you're just

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just a great film you know most like

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docket documentary' type of films to me

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are fairly boring especially the ones I

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see now on you know Amazon and all they

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look like they've been pasted together

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no insult to the producers or the

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directors of the films but this one is

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got a little bit of everything in it and

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it's based on the actual case studies

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and includes witness testimony I mean we

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actually see the witnesses we talk to

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them and it provides a chilling effect

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and I don't think that most other films

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of this nature actually convey today and

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Linda you can send me fifty dollars in

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the mail that's fine thank you for that

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hey but I want to start out Tim let's

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bring a doctor Irina Irina Scott into

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the conversation because I think we want

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to start out with maybe an overall

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discussion of a UFOs from a historical

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perspective and then we'll go to Linda

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who has a case study that we're going to

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discuss but you know dr. Scott I don't

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know too much about you I mean this book

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was kind of a surprise it's published by

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a flying disc press out of the UK by

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Philip mantel and you know I looked at

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the information I said well this sounds

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very you know impressive and not only I

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would call it a scholarly book but it

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really isn't because it's a very well

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lit you know written and educational as

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well as entertaining and a lot of UFO

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books lack that I mean they're either

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one way or the other and this one is it

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how did you come up with the concept of

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this book and and what got you

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interested in UFOs to start with did you

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have some sort of sighting yourself

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growing up or was it just something you

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happen to turn on the TV one day and

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said well that sounds pretty fascinating

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to me let me look at it

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well I was kind of like born interested

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in astronomy I was interested in

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astronomy ever since I can remember and

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I went to school and major in it but I

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couldn't get a job because it was

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female-only back then and so I went into

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other fields but I remained interested

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and I was interested in everything

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besides the physics I was just

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interested in UFOs and everything else

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so I've been interested ever since I was

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a kid but I didn't do much about it

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until until I was getting further in my

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career and everything and I joined some

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UFO groups and then what what made you

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decide to do that because most people

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with a background in astronomy are kind

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of dead set against this the concept

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that there are UFOs maybe you could see

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weird things you know going past the

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moon or something but astronomers is a

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rule kind of poo-poo the the subject or

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maybe they don't because I'm sure that

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there's something in your book that

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takes that into account well I think

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some of the top ufologists in the world

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are astronomers for

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well dr. Allen Hynek yes that's true he

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was sort of influence on me to start

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with because he used he was a professor

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at Ohio State here and he wrote an

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astronomy column in the local in the

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newspaper and so I kind of followed him

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from a long time and he at first was a

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big d bunker and then he changed his

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mind decided there was something to it

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and I was just open-minded in everything

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I know a lot of people say especially

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people I know tease me and harass me but

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I think I view myself as open-minded and

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I want to find about everything that's

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going on whether it's physics or whether

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it's observation of UFOs what was the

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one particular case that that you can

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point to add like the the Ann Arbor UFO

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sightings or something that you said

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hell man this is this is something I

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need to investigate I mean was there

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some some jumping off point no I just

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kind of followed it sort of secretly

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ever since I was a kid but I didn't

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activate into it quite right oh I like

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that well you use anything to have done

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an awful lot of research with your with

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your book here why don't you just

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capsulize what it is that you're you're

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trying to do I mean there are so many

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books UFO books that are published today

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this is the one one of the ones that I

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would say stands out it's kind of

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impressive because it does start at the

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beginning with the Kenneth Arnold

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sighting and it comes up to well you

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know I have to be honest I haven't had a

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chance to read the entire book but I

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actually plan to what what is your

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concept in what what are you trying to

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tell us I guess basically what I'm

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trying to say is good I think

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UFO phenomena is a lot more complex and

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it's presented it's usually presented as

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craft from other planets and then

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there's always this big debate on

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whether anybody from another planet can

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get here in a lab oh yeah I let that

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straight that's very astute of you so I

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I think you probably join our camp

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because here on that exploring the

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bizarre we're kind of I wouldn't say

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promoters because we don't really have

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force our own point of view were down

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anybody's throat in fact our point of

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view is subject to to change with

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incoming data and I've been doing this

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for 50 years and tim has been doing it

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for oh I guess more than a couple of

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decades now so we've got just about

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everything under our belt ourselves but

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we've come a long way from the 1950s mid

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1950s when I first got started and

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thinking that these were all

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extraterrestrials but I go ahead I don't

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mean to interrupt but that's a good

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jumping-off point because you're right

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there still seems to be this

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preconceived notion nice to actually

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major Keyhoe I would say to a large

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degree that UFOs are from outer space

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and I don't know if there's any direct

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evidence of that or what kind of

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evidence you would really need but okay

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go ahead tell us a little bit more about

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your concept and book here well I

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started investigating by interviewing

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people that had sightings and a lot of

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people they don't report because they

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think there's little green men crawling

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around their house or anything they

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report because they see something it

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doesn't look right and so they report

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and then they get harassed which cuts

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down on the number of reports but the

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reports I guess the for a lot of people

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that I've interviewed don't sound like

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crap from another planet a lot of people

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report objects they're soundless that

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just float through the air

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and some emerge and I'm coming apart

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they don't fit the idea of a craft at

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all

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and then other people see look objects

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that turn into humanoid shapes and

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there's all kinds of shapes and it

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doesn't it seems to me like that

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I just defined UFO phenomenon as things

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00:14:26,650 --> 00:14:20,420
that don't fit in to your normal

273
00:14:30,699 --> 00:14:26,660
perspective and so I don't have a real

274
00:14:33,220 --> 00:14:30,709
concept of what they are and my idea of

275
00:14:34,660 --> 00:14:33,230
government cover-up is that maybe the

276
00:14:38,019 --> 00:14:34,670
government doesn't know too much about

277
00:14:41,889 --> 00:14:38,029
it either that's a that's just my theory

278
00:14:44,050 --> 00:14:41,899
maybe I'm happy I'm happy to hear you

279
00:14:46,990 --> 00:14:44,060
say that because there are so many

280
00:14:48,940 --> 00:14:47,000
people who are you know in the

281
00:14:50,650 --> 00:14:48,950
disclosure movement thinking that you

282
00:14:51,970 --> 00:14:50,660
know the government government has all

283
00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:51,980
the information and they're just keeping

284
00:14:56,889 --> 00:14:54,250
a secret you know constantly a

285
00:14:58,780 --> 00:14:56,899
petitioning the president to reveal what

286
00:15:04,030 --> 00:14:58,790
they know about UFOs ooh

287
00:15:08,019 --> 00:15:04,040
but yeah like yourself I think that the

288
00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:08,029
government probably I mean they may have

289
00:15:13,690 --> 00:15:10,730
some good photographs maybe even you

290
00:15:15,460 --> 00:15:13,700
know some some debris hidden you know

291
00:15:19,329 --> 00:15:15,470
underneath wright-patterson Air Force

292
00:15:24,130 --> 00:15:19,339
Base or something like that but I think

293
00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:24,140
that the the whole cover-up may be just

294
00:15:28,540 --> 00:15:26,930
that that they're not going to admit

295
00:15:30,340 --> 00:15:28,550
that they don't know what's going on I

296
00:15:34,210 --> 00:15:30,350
mean you know what would the population

297
00:15:35,980 --> 00:15:34,220
think if you know the president came on

298
00:15:38,170 --> 00:15:35,990
the television said yeah UFOs are real

299
00:15:39,850 --> 00:15:38,180
we just can't do anything about them

300
00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:39,860
there they are they're flying through

301
00:15:45,100 --> 00:15:42,890
our skies with impunity we can't stop

302
00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:45,110
them we don't know what they are are you

303
00:15:48,370 --> 00:15:46,610
thinking I could make I could make a

304
00:15:51,939 --> 00:15:48,380
comment about that in the president but

305
00:15:53,319 --> 00:15:51,949
I won't i won't ever wonder what do you

306
00:15:54,759 --> 00:15:53,329
think the reaction of the public would

307
00:15:56,889 --> 00:15:54,769
be i mean i think i think people would

308
00:15:58,710 --> 00:15:56,899
be more inclined you know to be happy or

309
00:16:01,780 --> 00:15:58,720
thinking that that ufos were

310
00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:01,790
extraterrestrials rather than the

311
00:16:05,610 --> 00:16:03,050
government saying that we don't know

312
00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:05,620
what they are and we can't stop them

313
00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:09,290
what they always say the government says

314
00:16:13,449 --> 00:16:11,810
generally when they disapprove UFOs is

315
00:16:15,610 --> 00:16:13,459
they say they're not a threat to

316
00:16:20,139 --> 00:16:15,620
national security they don't say they

317
00:16:21,699 --> 00:16:20,149
don't exist or they don't lay that there

318
00:16:24,699 --> 00:16:21,709
they don't say that they're done a

319
00:16:27,249 --> 00:16:24,709
threat to individual security however

320
00:16:29,829 --> 00:16:27,259
many there's a bigot there's a big

321
00:16:31,809 --> 00:16:29,839
difference there because certainly if

322
00:16:34,629 --> 00:16:31,819
you hear people talk to they've had that

323
00:16:37,449 --> 00:16:34,639
are experiencers they certainly are you

324
00:16:41,139 --> 00:16:37,459
know have some very negative

325
00:16:45,790 --> 00:16:41,149
connotations yes some people have

326
00:16:47,230 --> 00:16:45,800
positive some people have negative one

327
00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:47,240
thing that's different about my book is

328
00:16:54,490 --> 00:16:50,690
I've actually worked in several of the

329
00:16:58,900 --> 00:16:54,500
places where they where the most were

330
00:17:01,629 --> 00:16:58,910
the most intense investigation of UFOs

331
00:17:07,150 --> 00:17:01,639
took place and so I had sort of

332
00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:07,160
background on the government ideas that

333
00:17:14,169 --> 00:17:09,650
either directly or through the grapevine

334
00:17:18,909 --> 00:17:14,179
but for example I worked at Battelle

335
00:17:25,299 --> 00:17:18,919
Memorial Institute and it's a real pop

336
00:17:30,490 --> 00:17:25,309
in scientific organization it was who

337
00:17:37,590 --> 00:17:30,500
developed the Xerox and also it was

338
00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:37,600
important in a lot of atomic energy hmm

339
00:17:45,490 --> 00:17:39,890
investigation did you know that one of

340
00:17:48,370 --> 00:17:45,500
the first Xerox machines what was used

341
00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:48,380
at Project Blue Book I actually read

342
00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:50,530
that in the history of the Xerox machine

343
00:17:57,789 --> 00:17:53,450
that was one of the the first places

344
00:18:01,120 --> 00:17:57,799
that it was used no I didn't know that

345
00:18:03,850 --> 00:18:01,130
but writers I'm in Ohio and

346
00:18:06,669 --> 00:18:03,860
wright-patterson is in Ohio and since

347
00:18:12,390 --> 00:18:06,679
Patel and I think they were closely

348
00:18:16,390 --> 00:18:12,400
connected because Patel had a lot of

349
00:18:18,580 --> 00:18:16,400
metallurgist in science and they did one

350
00:18:21,399 --> 00:18:18,590
of the first scientific studies of UFOs

351
00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:21,409
they had Patel do it and to tell their

352
00:18:26,039 --> 00:18:23,490
excellent job

353
00:18:31,350 --> 00:18:26,049
but the government said didn't find

354
00:18:36,500 --> 00:18:31,360
anything when they did and yes I that

355
00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:40,009
wright-patterson seem to be linked and

356
00:18:45,210 --> 00:18:42,970
some of the people I knew that worked on

357
00:18:46,350 --> 00:18:45,220
project Bluebook we're actually getting

358
00:18:50,130 --> 00:18:46,360
paid by Mattel

359
00:18:53,940 --> 00:18:50,140
I can imagine the size of one of those

360
00:18:56,430 --> 00:18:53,950
first copiers probably took a huge

361
00:18:58,049 --> 00:18:56,440
amount of space although some of them do

362
00:18:59,610 --> 00:18:58,059
now too because of course they're

363
00:19:03,269 --> 00:18:59,620
printing books you know in the digital

364
00:19:05,549 --> 00:19:03,279
world but probably the print one page

365
00:19:09,830 --> 00:19:05,559
you needed the same space now that you

366
00:19:12,330 --> 00:19:09,840
need to you know put an entire book in a

367
00:19:16,769 --> 00:19:12,340
minute and a half or something like that

368
00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:16,779
but okay so well that now what what was

369
00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:19,090
here the earliest case that you

370
00:19:26,669 --> 00:19:21,850
investigated or what are the cases that

371
00:19:29,029 --> 00:19:26,679
most impress you well I started out at

372
00:19:33,389 --> 00:19:29,039
the beginning with Kenneth Arnold

373
00:19:36,570 --> 00:19:33,399
because I thought that at that time the

374
00:19:38,639 --> 00:19:36,580
government was organizing its coverup

375
00:19:41,430 --> 00:19:38,649
and figuring out what to doing so it

376
00:19:47,100 --> 00:19:41,440
wasn't as coordinated as it is now

377
00:19:51,419 --> 00:19:47,110
and I found I found suggestions as they

378
00:19:54,409 --> 00:19:51,429
had the idea of UFOs or flying saucers

379
00:19:58,560 --> 00:19:54,419
or something before Kenneth Arnold I

380
00:20:02,370 --> 00:19:58,570
found a document

381
00:20:04,700 --> 00:20:02,380
wright-patterson and also in Carol's

382
00:20:10,529 --> 00:20:04,710
book that said they had started

383
00:20:12,889 --> 00:20:10,539
investigating in January of 1947 we've

384
00:20:17,930 --> 00:20:12,899
had his granddaughter on the show here

385
00:20:20,940 --> 00:20:17,940
Wow yeah yeah yeah she's in fact she has

386
00:20:25,409 --> 00:20:20,950
tattooed on her back on her shoulder

387
00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:25,419
Denine crafted her a grandfather saw so

388
00:20:31,710 --> 00:20:27,850
there there you go it still makes an

389
00:20:35,039 --> 00:20:31,720
impression in the in the family which it

390
00:20:36,810 --> 00:20:35,049
out the reason I got started on this was

391
00:20:39,540 --> 00:20:36,820
because I was

392
00:20:41,910 --> 00:20:39,550
and in the 1970s I was in a good well

393
00:20:43,830 --> 00:20:41,920
store I'm just browsing around that was

394
00:20:46,260 --> 00:20:43,840
back in the days when people read books

395
00:20:49,260 --> 00:20:46,270
and that sort of thing and they had all

396
00:20:51,210 --> 00:20:49,270
these books with slicey covers and just

397
00:20:53,490 --> 00:20:51,220
wonderful and you got him for almost

398
00:20:55,860 --> 00:20:53,500
nothing and so I was looking through

399
00:20:59,100 --> 00:20:55,870
these and I found I just noticed a

400
00:21:01,710 --> 00:20:59,110
really old book that didn't like was the

401
00:21:04,220 --> 00:21:01,720
opposite of slicey and I pulled it out

402
00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:04,230
and it said written by Kenneth Arnold

403
00:21:10,110 --> 00:21:06,490
and I thought well I love me other

404
00:21:13,890 --> 00:21:10,120
saucers yeah and I thought oh how boring

405
00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:13,900
I mean I knew he saw flying saucer and

406
00:21:17,730 --> 00:21:15,970
everything but for some reason I just

407
00:21:20,370 --> 00:21:17,740
couldn't put it down and I saw I bought

408
00:21:23,700 --> 00:21:20,380
it and brought it home and it was just

409
00:21:27,830 --> 00:21:23,710
fascinating because it was written in

410
00:21:30,180 --> 00:21:27,840
1950s and back in those days everybody

411
00:21:31,950 --> 00:21:30,190
kind of believed the government they

412
00:21:34,620 --> 00:21:31,960
didn't know anything about cover-up and

413
00:21:38,130 --> 00:21:34,630
they were not even everything but I read

414
00:21:40,530 --> 00:21:38,140
it right after Watergate and so I it

415
00:21:43,260 --> 00:21:40,540
seemed a lot different to me after I

416
00:21:45,390 --> 00:21:43,270
read that because the things that were

417
00:21:46,290 --> 00:21:45,400
explained in the book is just accident

418
00:21:48,780 --> 00:21:46,300
or coincidence

419
00:21:51,510 --> 00:21:48,790
seem to me like we were part of a

420
00:21:54,180 --> 00:21:51,520
cover-up then and so I thought it was

421
00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:54,190
pretty fascinating well if anything it's

422
00:21:58,320 --> 00:21:54,850
a cover-up

423
00:22:00,780 --> 00:21:58,330
I think like you said of ignorance at

424
00:22:04,610 --> 00:22:00,790
least partially I mean how could the

425
00:22:09,810 --> 00:22:04,620
government admit that these objects are

426
00:22:11,910 --> 00:22:09,820
faster and and as you say travel very

427
00:22:15,810 --> 00:22:11,920
rapidly at times but yet can hover over

428
00:22:18,360 --> 00:22:15,820
your your house very silently and then

429
00:22:22,230 --> 00:22:18,370
shoot up into the sky and and perhaps

430
00:22:24,570 --> 00:22:22,240
even send somebody down to to snatch you

431
00:22:27,380 --> 00:22:24,580
up in the middle of the of the night I

432
00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:27,390
mean it's a it's a subject that's so

433
00:22:34,650 --> 00:22:30,730
complex that I can't even imagine the

434
00:22:39,010 --> 00:22:34,660
president going on TV and saying

435
00:22:41,590 --> 00:22:39,020
intelligently anything about the subject

436
00:22:44,649 --> 00:22:41,600
I think people are more open-minded now

437
00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:44,659
than they used to be because I everybody

438
00:22:49,630 --> 00:22:47,690
terrify the ideas back then and now

439
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:49,640
there's you strolling with Dario at

440
00:22:55,210 --> 00:22:52,490
movies and everything so they wouldn't

441
00:22:58,419 --> 00:22:55,220
pay as much attention maybe it's

442
00:23:00,190 --> 00:22:58,429
probably still be terrified well I do

443
00:23:01,149 --> 00:23:00,200
you think it would send the stock market

444
00:23:04,060 --> 00:23:01,159
to a Salesman

445
00:23:06,340 --> 00:23:04,070
ah yeah there's there's the music Tim

446
00:23:09,549 --> 00:23:06,350
it's time for a break now back to

447
00:23:11,620 --> 00:23:09,559
exploring the bazaar with two of the

448
00:23:15,909 --> 00:23:11,630
most electrifying researchers with

449
00:23:20,409 --> 00:23:15,919
paranoid your host Timothy Beckley Anton

450
00:23:23,260 --> 00:23:20,419
Swartz and welcome back to exploring the

451
00:23:24,730 --> 00:23:23,270
bazaar I'm Tim Schwarz and tonight we

452
00:23:27,730 --> 00:23:24,740
are talking about one of our favorite

453
00:23:30,580 --> 00:23:27,740
subjects UFOs and I'm going to bring

454
00:23:34,269 --> 00:23:30,590
into our conversation now Linda

455
00:23:37,510 --> 00:23:34,279
Zimmerman and as I said before that

456
00:23:40,389 --> 00:23:37,520
Linda is a former research scientist and

457
00:23:44,590 --> 00:23:40,399
an author over 30 books on science

458
00:23:50,860 --> 00:23:44,600
history and the paranormal as as well as

459
00:23:52,899 --> 00:23:50,870
having some of your books in as a

460
00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:52,909
graphic novels am I correct on this

461
00:23:58,510 --> 00:23:56,570
Linda yes some of my work has been

462
00:24:00,850 --> 00:23:58,520
turned into comic books and graphic

463
00:24:06,779 --> 00:24:00,860
novels and I even became a comic book

464
00:24:10,659 --> 00:24:06,789
character oh really in what which one um

465
00:24:13,510 --> 00:24:10,669
in my ghost investigator series oh

466
00:24:16,889 --> 00:24:13,520
that's right you know yeah so now all I

467
00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:20,889
okay well now how did you how did you

468
00:24:29,049 --> 00:24:24,850
make that jump then from a research

469
00:24:32,380 --> 00:24:29,059
chemist to an author and and I should

470
00:24:35,950 --> 00:24:32,390
also point out that you are the author

471
00:24:37,570 --> 00:24:35,960
of one of my favorite books bad science

472
00:24:40,330 --> 00:24:37,580
a brief history of bizarre

473
00:24:44,230 --> 00:24:40,340
misconceptions totally wrong conclusions

474
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:44,240
and incredibly stupid theories I love

475
00:24:49,090 --> 00:24:47,210
that book by the way Linda I've had a

476
00:24:51,279 --> 00:24:49,100
copy of that for you know several years

477
00:24:52,150 --> 00:24:51,289
down and I always I always get a big

478
00:24:53,860 --> 00:24:52,160
laugh out of

479
00:24:55,690 --> 00:24:53,870
and I love to pull it out you know when

480
00:24:58,750 --> 00:24:55,700
somebody says something that you know

481
00:25:05,320 --> 00:24:58,760
I'm like no that's not true with me and

482
00:25:07,540 --> 00:25:05,330
and and and and here Linda says this so

483
00:25:10,770 --> 00:25:07,550
okay so so tell me I mean how did you go

484
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:10,780
from a you know research scientist who

485
00:25:18,700 --> 00:25:15,890
to author well it was the hand of fate

486
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:18,710
when our company was bought by another

487
00:25:23,980 --> 00:25:21,410
company and we were a medical

488
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:23,990
diagnostics company which you think

489
00:25:30,310 --> 00:25:26,450
would entail a lot of research and

490
00:25:34,770 --> 00:25:30,320
development and I was in R&D and they

491
00:25:39,700 --> 00:25:34,780
decided to close the R&D department and

492
00:25:41,620 --> 00:25:39,710
basically farm things out and at that

493
00:25:44,740 --> 00:25:41,630
point most of my other friends were

494
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:44,750
scrambling to get you know other jobs in

495
00:25:51,310 --> 00:25:48,890
science and I had always wanted to write

496
00:25:53,740 --> 00:25:51,320
I thought I would do it when I retired

497
00:25:57,430 --> 00:25:53,750
and I said well maybe this is a change

498
00:26:00,360 --> 00:25:57,440
in plans and I'll start writing I can

499
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:00,370
always go back to the lab and that was

500
00:26:06,940 --> 00:26:04,970
the late 80s and I haven't been back to

501
00:26:09,430 --> 00:26:06,950
the lab since Wow

502
00:26:11,980 --> 00:26:09,440
so what was uh what was the first thing

503
00:26:17,170 --> 00:26:11,990
that you wrote then just well I was

504
00:26:20,790 --> 00:26:17,180
writing field yeah I was writing history

505
00:26:25,450 --> 00:26:20,800
I was writing some local history and

506
00:26:29,070 --> 00:26:25,460
soon after that I started of fiction I

507
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:29,080
love science fiction and then the ghost

508
00:26:35,050 --> 00:26:32,690
stories kind of fell into my lap people

509
00:26:37,810 --> 00:26:35,060
just as I was giving history lectures

510
00:26:40,210 --> 00:26:37,820
they were asking me about ghost stories

511
00:26:42,370 --> 00:26:40,220
and I was I was rather indignant at

512
00:26:46,660 --> 00:26:42,380
first I said I'm giving a history like

513
00:26:48,660 --> 00:26:46,670
sure you know and then I realized more

514
00:26:52,060 --> 00:26:48,670
people were showing up to hear about

515
00:26:56,350 --> 00:26:52,070
local ghost stories than than the

516
00:26:58,570 --> 00:26:56,360
history so I gave it a shot

517
00:27:01,090 --> 00:26:58,580
interviewed some people put out a little

518
00:27:03,430 --> 00:27:01,100
staple covered book and it sold out in

519
00:27:08,230 --> 00:27:03,440
two weeks and I said

520
00:27:11,830 --> 00:27:08,240
there's a market here for this so 13

521
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:11,840
ghost investigator books later and I

522
00:27:18,610 --> 00:27:15,410
think I made the right move do that

523
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:18,620
fascinating though when you have people

524
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:22,250
who are more interested in in in ghost

525
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:24,770
stories rather than you know hearing

526
00:27:29,710 --> 00:27:27,530
about the the historical factors of you

527
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:29,720
know buildings or whatever in your town

528
00:27:40,150 --> 00:27:35,050
you know I say it it says a lot about

529
00:27:42,310 --> 00:27:40,160
people and their beliefs you know or not

530
00:27:44,770 --> 00:27:42,320
maybe not so much as beliefs but just

531
00:27:47,050 --> 00:27:44,780
just interest even though a lot of them

532
00:27:50,020 --> 00:27:47,060
don't really you know care to admit it

533
00:27:52,150 --> 00:27:50,030
openly in you know like the paranormal

534
00:27:55,510 --> 00:27:52,160
ghost stories are UFO sightings and

535
00:27:59,740 --> 00:27:55,520
things like that yeah in fact the state

536
00:28:03,580 --> 00:27:59,750
of New York has started a haunted

537
00:28:08,830 --> 00:28:03,590
history trail and places are clamoring

538
00:28:14,290 --> 00:28:08,840
to get on that list because ghosts bring

539
00:28:17,620 --> 00:28:14,300
in tourists and especially kids so it's

540
00:28:21,460 --> 00:28:17,630
it's a big industry isn't that something

541
00:28:24,190 --> 00:28:21,470
how if you approached a local you know

542
00:28:29,140 --> 00:28:24,200
like a government years ago with either

543
00:28:31,360 --> 00:28:29,150
the idea or ghosts or UFOs they would uh

544
00:28:33,250 --> 00:28:31,370
turd you out the the door and probably

545
00:28:35,380 --> 00:28:33,260
they're spoken to you for like two

546
00:28:38,290 --> 00:28:35,390
minutes before dismissing you where

547
00:28:41,380 --> 00:28:38,300
today there are UFO festivals and UFO

548
00:28:43,810 --> 00:28:41,390
parades and all kinds of things

549
00:28:46,270 --> 00:28:43,820
associated with the the subject like the

550
00:28:51,220 --> 00:28:46,280
one that's coming up I think June 20th

551
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:51,230
in Pine Bush New York May 20th say 2000

552
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:54,530
K just right the weekend after next I

553
00:29:00,040 --> 00:28:56,090
will be there

554
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:00,050
it's um well maybe a lot going to try to

555
00:29:04,660 --> 00:29:01,730
make it I haven't been to Pine Bush in

556
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:04,670
yeah since the whole thing started with

557
00:29:12,340 --> 00:29:07,850
Ellen Crystal back in the in the days

558
00:29:15,430 --> 00:29:12,350
you know right yes it was the number one

559
00:29:16,540 --> 00:29:15,440
hot spot uh probably in the East Coast

560
00:29:19,060 --> 00:29:16,550
at that point

561
00:29:22,420 --> 00:29:19,070
or if not the entire country well but

562
00:29:27,130 --> 00:29:22,430
the Hudson Valley there got its a share

563
00:29:30,310 --> 00:29:27,140
of reports now let's zero in on the

564
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:30,320
Hudson Valley that was certainly now to

565
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:33,410
me I kind of equate that to the to the

566
00:29:39,700 --> 00:29:36,650
Phoenix lights I mean I don't know who

567
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:39,710
had the largest number of witnesses but

568
00:29:46,030 --> 00:29:42,650
it seems like the the objects were

569
00:29:48,070 --> 00:29:46,040
resembled kind of each other when did

570
00:29:51,370 --> 00:29:48,080
the first sighting take place in the

571
00:29:54,310 --> 00:29:51,380
Hudson Valley and how did the flap grow

572
00:29:56,380 --> 00:29:54,320
you know I I did go to the Town Hall a

573
00:29:59,470 --> 00:29:56,390
meeting that they had at the it was the

574
00:30:01,270 --> 00:29:59,480
Brewster High School there right yeah

575
00:30:03,490 --> 00:30:01,280
yeah so it give us a little bit of

576
00:30:05,980 --> 00:30:03,500
history about it I'm I'm sure a lot of

577
00:30:09,010 --> 00:30:05,990
our listeners you know have heard of

578
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:09,020
these this particular flat but there are

579
00:30:14,650 --> 00:30:11,810
as some newbies out there every day they

580
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:14,660
come to us on bended knees asking for

581
00:30:20,590 --> 00:30:16,930
more information so let's give it to

582
00:30:24,780 --> 00:30:20,600
certainly um well that it's basically a

583
00:30:28,660 --> 00:30:24,790
dual question because my first reported

584
00:30:31,930 --> 00:30:28,670
documented sighting goes back to 1908 in

585
00:30:35,670 --> 00:30:31,940
this area but if we're talking about the

586
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:35,680
big flap we're talking about basically

587
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:41,210
1983 to about 86 87 there was a several

588
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:45,290
year period where it was several times a

589
00:30:52,330 --> 00:30:49,250
week and I won't say every night but it

590
00:30:56,350 --> 00:30:52,340
was a constant thing going on for years

591
00:30:58,710 --> 00:30:56,360
and tens of thousands of people would

592
00:31:02,230 --> 00:30:58,720
see one of these on any given night

593
00:31:05,500 --> 00:31:02,240
massive boomerangs triangles v-shaped

594
00:31:09,220 --> 00:31:05,510
craft and what I find astonishing

595
00:31:11,410 --> 00:31:09,230
especially in ufology where everybody's

596
00:31:14,980 --> 00:31:11,420
heard of the Phoenix lights which was

597
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:14,990
essentially one night we had three or

598
00:31:22,750 --> 00:31:18,890
four years of constant activity and I

599
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:22,760
still meet people who not all of the

600
00:31:27,430 --> 00:31:25,250
Hudson Valley flap has met of her heard

601
00:31:28,900 --> 00:31:27,440
of the Hudson Valley

602
00:31:30,130 --> 00:31:28,910
you know I've people to where is that

603
00:31:34,690 --> 00:31:30,140
Wyoming you know

604
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:34,700
North Carolina it's and once I start

605
00:31:39,850 --> 00:31:37,490
talking to them about what occurred how

606
00:31:42,730 --> 00:31:39,860
many people saw these crafts and how

607
00:31:45,430 --> 00:31:42,740
close they were basically hovering at

608
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:45,440
treetop level for 10 20 minutes

609
00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:48,650
minute at a time they say well why

610
00:31:55,390 --> 00:31:51,770
doesn't everybody know about this and I

611
00:31:57,780 --> 00:31:55,400
don't know the only thing I can think is

612
00:32:00,760 --> 00:31:57,790
that there was such a disinformation

613
00:32:02,950 --> 00:32:00,770
campaign that everything was the

614
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:02,960
formation of Cessna planes or

615
00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:05,930
ultralights and if you think otherwise

616
00:32:12,370 --> 00:32:09,050
you're stupid was basically what was

617
00:32:14,890 --> 00:32:12,380
being put forth well also though - now

618
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:14,900
you know I used to have conferences

619
00:32:19,150 --> 00:32:17,570
quite a number of them in Phoenix the

620
00:32:22,420 --> 00:32:19,160
news is a little bit more manageable

621
00:32:24,250 --> 00:32:22,430
there because it's not the the massive

622
00:32:27,070 --> 00:32:24,260
population of like a New York City where

623
00:32:29,470 --> 00:32:27,080
you only have two newspapers that that

624
00:32:33,370 --> 00:32:29,480
has a lot of a lot to do with the - is

625
00:32:35,590 --> 00:32:33,380
the media in any given area it's so

626
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:35,600
difficult to get anything you know I

627
00:32:41,290 --> 00:32:38,330
think in the last maybe 10 years there's

628
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:41,300
been one UFO would flap over Manhattan

629
00:32:46,060 --> 00:32:43,130
here that did get some attention on the

630
00:32:47,410 --> 00:32:46,070
the news and yet there are reports I

631
00:32:49,780 --> 00:32:47,420
mean that have been made to me over the

632
00:32:52,150 --> 00:32:49,790
years on pretty much a regular basis so

633
00:32:55,180 --> 00:32:52,160
that has a lot to do with it - is I

634
00:32:57,790 --> 00:32:55,190
think being able to get something in the

635
00:32:59,860 --> 00:32:57,800
in the press we're here it's certainly a

636
00:33:02,290 --> 00:32:59,870
lot more difficult than it would be you

637
00:33:04,570 --> 00:33:02,300
know in Arizona it seems because we've

638
00:33:06,220 --> 00:33:04,580
made the front page you know like the

639
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:06,230
magazine section on the Thursday before

640
00:33:09,820 --> 00:33:07,970
the weekend you know that's stuffed into

641
00:33:11,230 --> 00:33:09,830
the newspaper we'd have a whole thing on

642
00:33:13,510 --> 00:33:11,240
our UFO conference like three pages

643
00:33:17,140 --> 00:33:13,520
inside New York you'll be lucky if you

644
00:33:19,990 --> 00:33:17,150
get two inches in the paper right right

645
00:33:24,460 --> 00:33:20,000
yeah certainly media has had a lot to do

646
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:24,470
with it so I've kind of made it my quest

647
00:33:30,850 --> 00:33:28,370
now to get the word out and to document

648
00:33:34,180 --> 00:33:30,860
as many cases speak to as many

649
00:33:37,300 --> 00:33:34,190
eyewitnesses as possible and as you saw

650
00:33:39,790 --> 00:33:37,310
from the film I try to go to the actual

651
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:39,800
location because there's no better way

652
00:33:44,259 --> 00:33:43,490
to visualize somebody's eyewitness

653
00:33:47,469 --> 00:33:44,269
account

654
00:33:50,739 --> 00:33:47,479
then standing on the ground where they

655
00:33:53,889 --> 00:33:50,749
had their sighting really puts things in

656
00:33:56,999 --> 00:33:53,899
perspective so that's that's what I've

657
00:34:00,580 --> 00:33:57,009
been doing with these last few books and

658
00:34:04,209 --> 00:34:00,590
just trying to bring awareness to not

659
00:34:07,629 --> 00:34:04,219
just the flap of the 1980s but the fact

660
00:34:10,599 --> 00:34:07,639
that things have been flying around in

661
00:34:15,309 --> 00:34:10,609
the sky since 1908 and Ark is still

662
00:34:18,339 --> 00:34:15,319
continuing to this day well so something

663
00:34:20,019 --> 00:34:18,349
about the the nineteen to late UFO

664
00:34:23,829 --> 00:34:20,029
sightings because you know I mean a lot

665
00:34:27,069 --> 00:34:23,839
of people think that you know UFOs

666
00:34:30,700 --> 00:34:27,079
didn't appear until you know like a 1947

667
00:34:34,029 --> 00:34:30,710
yet in your book you know I mean you go

668
00:34:37,029 --> 00:34:34,039
all the way back you know to the early

669
00:34:40,240 --> 00:34:37,039
20th century and and I know that there

670
00:34:44,379 --> 00:34:40,250
were also you know airship sightings in

671
00:34:49,029 --> 00:34:44,389
the late 19th century as well right in

672
00:34:52,389 --> 00:34:49,039
the 1890s out in the West Coast and in

673
00:34:56,559 --> 00:34:52,399
the Midwest and here in the Northeast

674
00:34:59,559 --> 00:34:56,569
it began in 1908 in Connecticut the

675
00:35:04,329 --> 00:34:59,569
Hudson Valley was it was very widespread

676
00:35:07,630 --> 00:35:04,339
in the summer of 1909 hundreds if not

677
00:35:11,010 --> 00:35:07,640
thousands of people at night would see

678
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:11,020
this brilliant bright searchlight which

679
00:35:18,039 --> 00:35:14,210
had the capability of either hovering or

680
00:35:23,140 --> 00:35:18,049
moving extremely fast now for those who

681
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:23,150
are not aviation experts in 1908 no

682
00:35:29,529 --> 00:35:27,170
airplane had yet flown at night so we

683
00:35:30,970 --> 00:35:29,539
can completely rule that that out and

684
00:35:33,250 --> 00:35:30,980
there really weren't you know you had

685
00:35:37,420 --> 00:35:33,260
the Wright brothers sticking fabric

686
00:35:40,779 --> 00:35:37,430
planes clearly not capable of hovering

687
00:35:44,019 --> 00:35:40,789
and not going it at high rates of speed

688
00:35:46,539 --> 00:35:44,029
and yes there were dirigibles but again

689
00:35:50,109 --> 00:35:46,549
they did not have the capability of

690
00:35:52,720 --> 00:35:50,119
going very fast or staying you know we

691
00:35:57,130 --> 00:35:52,730
didn't have like the Zeppelin's we had

692
00:35:59,519 --> 00:35:57,140
rather inferior dirigibles over here

693
00:36:02,799 --> 00:35:59,529
so how do we explain the slight

694
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:02,809
characteristics we absolutely cannot and

695
00:36:10,269 --> 00:36:05,410
the waves spread up through New England

696
00:36:12,910 --> 00:36:10,279
to Canada and I need to point out there

697
00:36:15,789 --> 00:36:12,920
was no mass hysteria of a Martian

698
00:36:20,009 --> 00:36:15,799
invasion I have not been able to find

699
00:36:22,059 --> 00:36:20,019
one word written in all those years that

700
00:36:24,670 --> 00:36:22,069
anybody thought this was something

701
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:24,680
extraterrestrial they thought it was

702
00:36:28,809 --> 00:36:26,450
either the Wright brothers or perhaps

703
00:36:32,230 --> 00:36:28,819
Thomas Edison who was working in New

704
00:36:36,519 --> 00:36:32,240
Jersey here that had developed this

705
00:36:40,269 --> 00:36:36,529
magnificent ship that could you know fly

706
00:36:43,599 --> 00:36:40,279
in the night and carry heavy batteries

707
00:36:45,819 --> 00:36:43,609
and searchlights and hover and go

708
00:36:49,450 --> 00:36:45,829
quickly and stay in the air all night

709
00:36:52,569 --> 00:36:49,460
long and they waited and they waited and

710
00:36:56,620 --> 00:36:52,579
nobody came forth with it because it did

711
00:37:01,289 --> 00:36:56,630
not exist at least made by by human

712
00:37:07,059 --> 00:37:01,299
hands I always find it interesting that

713
00:37:08,589 --> 00:37:07,069
UFO sightings seemed to reflect the you

714
00:37:10,509 --> 00:37:08,599
know the time period that there that

715
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:10,519
have been seen you know the airship

716
00:37:14,890 --> 00:37:12,970
sightings when people would be able to

717
00:37:17,230 --> 00:37:14,900
distinguish you know something behind

718
00:37:19,089 --> 00:37:17,240
the lights or or have the rare daylight

719
00:37:21,549 --> 00:37:19,099
sightings they would always describe

720
00:37:24,430 --> 00:37:21,559
them as almost like an airship sometimes

721
00:37:25,809 --> 00:37:24,440
with big huge propellers other I know

722
00:37:27,789 --> 00:37:25,819
that there were some reports that they

723
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:27,799
had almost like you know flapping wings

724
00:37:32,380 --> 00:37:30,410
you know and then like a gondola

725
00:37:34,359 --> 00:37:32,390
underneath with you know people laughing

726
00:37:37,269 --> 00:37:34,369
and you know throwing down their

727
00:37:39,220 --> 00:37:37,279
champagne bottles on the onlookers you

728
00:37:41,140 --> 00:37:39,230
know underneath you know but then as

729
00:37:43,900 --> 00:37:41,150
time goes by you know you have like the

730
00:37:47,049 --> 00:37:43,910
1950s and the UFOs looked an awful lot

731
00:37:49,599 --> 00:37:47,059
like you know the cars of the period I

732
00:37:51,370 --> 00:37:49,609
mean you know very a nuts-and-bolts you

733
00:37:54,370 --> 00:37:51,380
look at like Georgia damn skis you know

734
00:37:58,029 --> 00:37:54,380
alleged photos and I mean those you know

735
00:38:02,170 --> 00:37:58,039
they they really look like a product of

736
00:38:04,690 --> 00:38:02,180
their time absolutely people judge

737
00:38:07,690 --> 00:38:04,700
things or try to describe them from

738
00:38:10,930 --> 00:38:07,700
their own frame of reference like the

739
00:38:13,450 --> 00:38:10,940
sightings hundreds of years ago

740
00:38:16,809 --> 00:38:13,460
or even thousands that describe flaming

741
00:38:18,430 --> 00:38:16,819
shields or chariots how else are they

742
00:38:23,230 --> 00:38:18,440
going to describe them because it's

743
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:23,240
something beyond their experience you

744
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:24,410
know that you know that's and that's

745
00:38:28,780 --> 00:38:26,450
another an interesting aspect about the

746
00:38:30,579 --> 00:38:28,790
whole UFO phenomena that we have you

747
00:38:34,780 --> 00:38:30,589
know talked about on this show

748
00:38:36,430 --> 00:38:34,790
is that you know and I know that people

749
00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:36,440
that have have come to talk to me about

750
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:40,130
their sightings they they really have

751
00:38:47,740 --> 00:38:44,930
trouble trying to pigeonhole so to speak

752
00:38:49,839 --> 00:38:47,750
their experience I mean it's like

753
00:38:52,870 --> 00:38:49,849
nothing that they've ever had before and

754
00:38:56,620 --> 00:38:52,880
they just don't know how to interpret

755
00:39:00,010 --> 00:38:56,630
and and like you said you know you know

756
00:39:02,380 --> 00:39:00,020
they'll try to use you know like oh

757
00:39:05,079 --> 00:39:02,390
whatever past experiences that they've

758
00:39:07,059 --> 00:39:05,089
had in their life to describe it but a

759
00:39:09,370 --> 00:39:07,069
lot of times people are just left you

760
00:39:12,250 --> 00:39:09,380
know completely bemused about what has

761
00:39:16,300 --> 00:39:12,260
happened to them yeah some of the best

762
00:39:20,050 --> 00:39:16,310
descriptions people describing looking

763
00:39:22,240 --> 00:39:20,060
like tinker toys so you know if you grew

764
00:39:24,579 --> 00:39:22,250
up in the 50s and 60s that's a great way

765
00:39:28,059 --> 00:39:24,589
to describe it if you were young seeing

766
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:28,069
some of these cylindrical or beam type

767
00:39:35,559 --> 00:39:32,210
crap and then one man said his sighting

768
00:39:39,190 --> 00:39:35,569
you know those norelco razors you know

769
00:39:42,220 --> 00:39:39,200
with the three rotating blades and I

770
00:39:44,950 --> 00:39:42,230
because it had three spinning lights on

771
00:39:47,349 --> 00:39:44,960
it I said well that's that's you know

772
00:39:49,450 --> 00:39:47,359
worth a thousand words right there so

773
00:39:54,250 --> 00:39:49,460
I've always remembered the norelco razor

774
00:39:56,109 --> 00:39:54,260
UFO hey Linda why don't you pick the the

775
00:39:58,270 --> 00:39:56,119
top of three reports in the Hudson

776
00:40:00,700 --> 00:39:58,280
Valley and give us a little thumbnail

777
00:40:02,980 --> 00:40:00,710
description of them which reports

778
00:40:07,630 --> 00:40:02,990
impressed you the the most over the

779
00:40:11,319 --> 00:40:07,640
years I think during the flap the night

780
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:11,329
of well there were two nights of March

781
00:40:22,660 --> 00:40:16,930
17th and March 24th 1983 where this

782
00:40:25,700 --> 00:40:22,670
enormous triangular craft very well lit

783
00:40:30,530 --> 00:40:25,710
up certainly wasn't trying to hide

784
00:40:33,290 --> 00:40:30,540
was stopping over major highways and if

785
00:40:35,720 --> 00:40:33,300
you know this area you do not want to

786
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:35,730
pull your car over or stop in the middle

787
00:40:41,890 --> 00:40:39,210
of route 84 which goes from Connecticut

788
00:40:45,140 --> 00:40:41,900
to through New York to Pennsylvania and

789
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:45,150
people would just stop their cars and

790
00:40:51,710 --> 00:40:47,850
get out and stand on the highway and

791
00:40:53,030 --> 00:40:51,720
watch this incredible object hovering

792
00:40:55,580 --> 00:40:53,040
over them

793
00:40:58,490 --> 00:40:55,590
I interviewed many people from those

794
00:41:01,040 --> 00:40:58,500
nights one of the best group of

795
00:41:03,410 --> 00:41:01,050
witnesses were three teachers who are

796
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:03,420
returning from graduate courses in New

797
00:41:09,350 --> 00:41:06,210
York City and they were on the Taconic

798
00:41:11,870 --> 00:41:09,360
Parkway and they saw this everybody

799
00:41:15,890 --> 00:41:11,880
pulled over so they could stopped and

800
00:41:20,060 --> 00:41:15,900
got out and this craft again a treetop

801
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:20,070
level absolutely silent brilliantly lit

802
00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:23,610
they stood underneath this for at least

803
00:41:31,100 --> 00:41:28,170
20 minutes and they still remember it

804
00:41:34,820 --> 00:41:31,110
vividly to this day who wouldn't I mean

805
00:41:37,550 --> 00:41:34,830
that is just you know in a in a field

806
00:41:41,330 --> 00:41:37,560
where a glimpse of something for five or

807
00:41:44,180 --> 00:41:41,340
ten seconds can change your life can you

808
00:41:46,490 --> 00:41:44,190
imagine standing there for for 20

809
00:41:49,300 --> 00:41:46,500
minutes with these people said if I had

810
00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:49,310
a rock or a baseball or a tennis ball I

811
00:41:58,310 --> 00:41:53,130
could have hit it that that's how close

812
00:42:00,470 --> 00:41:58,320
it was so then we have the other end of

813
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:00,480
the spectrum or a little farther down

814
00:42:07,670 --> 00:42:03,930
the spectrum of the abduction contactee

815
00:42:11,330 --> 00:42:07,680
experience or cases and actually my

816
00:42:13,670 --> 00:42:11,340
first interview was with a man who I

817
00:42:16,100 --> 00:42:13,680
thought he was going to describe seeing

818
00:42:20,740 --> 00:42:16,110
lights in the sky I wasn't quite

819
00:42:24,830 --> 00:42:20,750
prepared to find out it was a

820
00:42:29,660 --> 00:42:24,840
multi-generational abduction case that

821
00:42:33,110 --> 00:42:29,670
went back to his parents in the 1930s

822
00:42:36,350 --> 00:42:33,120
they started having missing time and

823
00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:36,360
seeing you know the classic large-eyed

824
00:42:41,820 --> 00:42:38,530
uh great

825
00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:41,830
ape you know decades before it became

826
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:45,130
popular in the media of course they had

827
00:42:49,770 --> 00:42:47,290
children and this was the man I was

828
00:42:53,220 --> 00:42:49,780
interviewing and he started having his

829
00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:53,230
experiences in the 1950s then his

830
00:42:57,690 --> 00:42:55,450
children had experiences and I now

831
00:43:02,250 --> 00:42:57,700
believe now there's great-grandchildren

832
00:43:04,830 --> 00:43:02,260
and I interviewed his mother who was in

833
00:43:09,510 --> 00:43:04,840
her 80s and was very matter-of-fact

834
00:43:16,830 --> 00:43:09,520
about these these experiences she had

835
00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:16,840
for 75 years and it really yes it really

836
00:43:21,990 --> 00:43:20,650
opened my eyes to what have I gotten

837
00:43:26,970 --> 00:43:22,000
myself into

838
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:26,980
yeah yes and how deep and how far does

839
00:43:32,940 --> 00:43:30,850
this phenomena go well you tell us yeah

840
00:43:35,300 --> 00:43:32,950
well I be what what what what what do

841
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:35,310
you think dear Lee with it an

842
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:37,890
extraterrestrial intelligence or

843
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:40,890
something even stranger than that I

844
00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:45,210
think there's a combination of things

845
00:43:52,110 --> 00:43:49,650
I'm not one who likes to speculate on

846
00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:52,120
you know if they're coming from a

847
00:44:00,120 --> 00:43:55,050
different dimension a different planet

848
00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:00,130
but clearly something physical is going

849
00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:02,890
is going on they are seeing physical

850
00:44:10,470 --> 00:44:06,370
crafts that leave depressions in dirt

851
00:44:15,380 --> 00:44:10,480
and grass they have they had physical

852
00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:15,390
marks on their bodies this man has a

853
00:44:21,720 --> 00:44:19,690
some triangular indentations on the back

854
00:44:25,350 --> 00:44:21,730
of his neck you can put your finger in

855
00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:25,360
there so deep which was the result of

856
00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:31,090
one night of missing time different

857
00:44:37,830 --> 00:44:34,690
physical ailments thyroid problems which

858
00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:37,840
are very common you know things that

859
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:40,530
might be the result of some sort of

860
00:44:50,570 --> 00:44:45,130
radioactive you know radioactivity that

861
00:44:52,770 --> 00:44:50,580
they're exposed to so very convincing

862
00:44:58,310 --> 00:44:52,780
very

863
00:45:02,760 --> 00:44:58,320
honest people and they are just one of

864
00:45:05,130 --> 00:45:02,770
dozens if not hundreds of people I'd say

865
00:45:08,340 --> 00:45:05,140
at least hundreds in the Hudson Valley

866
00:45:10,350 --> 00:45:08,350
be my first book in the night sky the

867
00:45:13,350 --> 00:45:10,360
abduction chapter turned out to be the

868
00:45:19,130 --> 00:45:13,360
largest chapter which was not something

869
00:45:21,690 --> 00:45:19,140
I had been prepared for at all and oh

870
00:45:22,830 --> 00:45:21,700
how about there isn't there supposed to

871
00:45:26,510 --> 00:45:22,840
have been a sighting that took place

872
00:45:32,060 --> 00:45:26,520
over the Indian Point powerplant

873
00:45:34,890 --> 00:45:32,070
yes several of them in the 1980s a

874
00:45:38,010 --> 00:45:34,900
massive of depending on who you talk to

875
00:45:41,250 --> 00:45:38,020
boomerang or v-shaped craft hovering

876
00:45:45,930 --> 00:45:41,260
just a couple of hundred feet over the

877
00:45:48,300 --> 00:45:45,940
reactor yeah one of the guards who was

878
00:45:52,110 --> 00:45:48,310
trying to film this that it was so

879
00:45:54,330 --> 00:45:52,120
massive he had to pen the camera back in

880
00:45:56,700 --> 00:45:54,340
his horse to get the whole thing in so

881
00:46:00,150 --> 00:45:56,710
there would be there would be some video

882
00:46:02,940 --> 00:46:00,160
of this somewhere yes of course the

883
00:46:07,070 --> 00:46:02,950
Nuclear Regulatory Commission or whoever

884
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:07,080
runs this oversees this facility claims

885
00:46:14,010 --> 00:46:10,810
absolutely no film was taken because

886
00:46:15,900 --> 00:46:14,020
nothing happened but you know that

887
00:46:19,140 --> 00:46:15,910
enough they're not about to release that

888
00:46:21,930 --> 00:46:19,150
on tomorrow's news that's for sure ah no

889
00:46:24,390 --> 00:46:21,940
and I spoke to another witness who was

890
00:46:26,550 --> 00:46:24,400
right across the river if you're

891
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:26,560
familiar with this area the Hudson

892
00:46:31,230 --> 00:46:28,930
written of the nuclear power plant is

893
00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:31,240
right on the Hudson River and people

894
00:46:35,820 --> 00:46:33,010
living on the other side of the river

895
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:35,830
it's very close and he's taking out the

896
00:46:41,790 --> 00:46:38,890
garbage one night and sees this massive

897
00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:41,800
craft again hovering over the power

898
00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:42,570
plant

899
00:46:49,380 --> 00:46:46,570
military helicopter is coming down the

900
00:46:53,340 --> 00:46:49,390
river after it and he said this thing

901
00:46:54,630 --> 00:46:53,350
just went and what Linda I'm going to

902
00:46:56,550 --> 00:46:54,640
have to interrupt you here because it's

903
00:46:58,350 --> 00:46:56,560
time for our bottom of the hour break so

904
00:47:00,160 --> 00:46:58,360
when we come back we will continue our

905
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:00,170
conversation

906
00:47:09,350 --> 00:47:02,370
UFOs and more

907
00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:13,180
[Music]

908
00:47:20,140 --> 00:47:18,230
explode the bazaar or e-ticket ride is

909
00:47:23,450 --> 00:47:20,150
the world of the paranormal

910
00:47:27,490 --> 00:47:23,460
strap yourself in as we traverse the

911
00:47:30,850 --> 00:47:27,500
universe exploring the unexplained UFO s

912
00:47:33,230 --> 00:47:30,860
ghost lost world

913
00:47:37,100 --> 00:47:33,240
cryptozoology as well as other

914
00:47:41,510 --> 00:47:37,110
dimensions it's time to take back the

915
00:47:44,750 --> 00:47:41,520
night last night now your electrifying

916
00:47:50,930 --> 00:47:44,760
hosts of exploring the bizarre Timothy

917
00:47:54,130 --> 00:47:50,940
Begley and Tim Schwartz all right and

918
00:47:58,460 --> 00:47:54,140
here we are back on the second hour of

919
00:48:00,860 --> 00:47:58,470
exploring the bizarre so Tim do you want

920
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:00,870
to bring a dr. Scott back into the

921
00:48:08,030 --> 00:48:04,170
conversation well I believe that might

922
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:08,040
be the case oh how many how many

923
00:48:13,010 --> 00:48:11,130
Arina how many flaps what would you say

924
00:48:17,540 --> 00:48:13,020
I mean like gigantic flaps we got

925
00:48:21,290 --> 00:48:17,550
nineteen fifty two fifty seven sixty

926
00:48:27,050 --> 00:48:21,300
three sixty six am I missing something

927
00:48:30,790 --> 00:48:27,060
in there it says in 373 yeah yeah yeah

928
00:48:34,970 --> 00:48:30,800
seventy-three trombones um you know it

929
00:48:37,370 --> 00:48:34,980
just seems to me that the the sightings

930
00:48:40,220 --> 00:48:37,380
got more attention in those days was it

931
00:48:42,740 --> 00:48:40,230
because it was a novelty or maybe I'm

932
00:48:47,020 --> 00:48:42,750
just looking back over my you know vast

933
00:48:50,270 --> 00:48:47,030
clipping files and scrapbooks and all I

934
00:48:53,030 --> 00:48:50,280
don't know because yeah it seems to me

935
00:48:56,090 --> 00:48:53,040
there they got a lot more attention to

936
00:48:58,790 --> 00:48:56,100
and you probably wouldn't know fading if

937
00:49:01,160 --> 00:48:58,800
a flap of going on now because there's

938
00:49:04,220 --> 00:49:01,170
so many shows about it there's so many

939
00:49:12,230 --> 00:49:04,230
people saying that there's a flat going

940
00:49:18,490 --> 00:49:12,240
on yeah I think one thing is back then

941
00:49:21,050 --> 00:49:18,500
there was a lot less ability to fake

942
00:49:24,050 --> 00:49:21,060
photographs and videos that sort of

943
00:49:26,180 --> 00:49:24,060
thing and today with all the photoshop

944
00:49:29,150 --> 00:49:26,190
and everything you can

945
00:49:33,110 --> 00:49:29,160
make any evidence you want so I think

946
00:49:35,060 --> 00:49:33,120
that's one thing that people today take

947
00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:35,070
it with a grain of salt sometimes where

948
00:49:41,180 --> 00:49:37,890
didn't have the ability to do some of

949
00:49:45,950 --> 00:49:41,190
that back in the earlier days plus it

950
00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:45,960
was novel and now people heard of UFOs

951
00:49:54,320 --> 00:49:48,930
practically everybody has and it's not

952
00:50:00,650 --> 00:49:54,330
is it also people were worried about an

953
00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:00,660
attack of you know like the Welles radio

954
00:50:06,500 --> 00:50:04,890
broadcast they were worried that

955
00:50:09,020 --> 00:50:06,510
somebody from another plant was going to

956
00:50:12,170 --> 00:50:09,030
attack in all these years nobody has

957
00:50:15,350 --> 00:50:12,180
attacked us or killed us tell the human

958
00:50:18,140 --> 00:50:15,360
race or anything so I think there's what

959
00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:18,150
there's probably somewhat less fear and

960
00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:21,810
there was then there it's not as tied up

961
00:50:26,990 --> 00:50:23,850
in people's mind with terror

962
00:50:28,850 --> 00:50:27,000
being killed or being eaten or whatever

963
00:50:33,680 --> 00:50:28,860
they thought the your foes were going to

964
00:50:37,730 --> 00:50:33,690
do to them now have you had the ability

965
00:50:44,090 --> 00:50:37,740
to investigate cases yourself firsthand

966
00:50:46,340 --> 00:50:44,100
dr. Scott yes I have is there anyone

967
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:46,350
that has really stood out in your mind

968
00:50:55,540 --> 00:50:52,050
over the years they all have yes one

969
00:50:59,590 --> 00:50:55,550
print it's one of the first ones was

970
00:51:05,600 --> 00:50:59,600
1952 when they were over the White House

971
00:51:10,010 --> 00:51:05,610
and quite a few showed up several times

972
00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:10,020
in radar and airplane pilots Psalm and

973
00:51:14,690 --> 00:51:11,610
everything else there was quite a flap

974
00:51:15,980 --> 00:51:14,700
it was in Washington DC you know they

975
00:51:18,500 --> 00:51:15,990
were flying right over the White House

976
00:51:21,880 --> 00:51:18,510
and restricted air space and everything

977
00:51:24,950 --> 00:51:21,890
and one thing seemed very funny was that

978
00:51:29,630 --> 00:51:24,960
it took the government a very long time

979
00:51:31,790 --> 00:51:29,640
to scramble jets to go look at him and

980
00:51:36,260 --> 00:51:31,800
you think they would start looking real

981
00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:36,270
fast but they didn't and that sort of

982
00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:38,610
made me feel there was a cover-up when I

983
00:51:46,250 --> 00:51:39,810
investigated my

984
00:51:49,910 --> 00:51:46,260
self was a man that was in the Jets as

985
00:51:52,190 --> 00:51:49,920
they finally scrambled looking for the

986
00:51:54,110 --> 00:51:52,200
UFOs I think he was a second from the

987
00:51:56,780 --> 00:51:54,120
leader and he said they didn't say

988
00:52:01,010 --> 00:51:56,790
anything to them about UFOs like what

989
00:52:04,340 --> 00:52:01,020
they presented it as would be that these

990
00:52:07,910 --> 00:52:04,350
things were Russian and they didn't know

991
00:52:11,180 --> 00:52:07,920
what was going on at the time so it

992
00:52:13,490 --> 00:52:11,190
seemed like there was some cover-up from

993
00:52:15,910 --> 00:52:13,500
the government on that even though they

994
00:52:18,350 --> 00:52:15,920
were flying right over the White House

995
00:52:22,070 --> 00:52:18,360
when our but that seems to be a case

996
00:52:24,650 --> 00:52:22,080
from very early on that the the military

997
00:52:28,580 --> 00:52:24,660
was first thinking that they were

998
00:52:34,070 --> 00:52:28,590
dealing with possible a secret Russian

999
00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:34,080
aircraft or even a Nazi aircraft III

1000
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:37,410
know I ran across some some paperwork

1001
00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:40,890
you know where they were afraid that you

1002
00:52:44,750 --> 00:52:42,810
know the Nazis had actually you know

1003
00:52:48,230 --> 00:52:44,760
managed to hide away someplace and we're

1004
00:52:51,770 --> 00:52:48,240
now flying in our airspace so I mean

1005
00:52:53,120 --> 00:52:51,780
when do you think the idea came around

1006
00:52:55,460 --> 00:52:53,130
that they were dealing with something

1007
00:52:59,030 --> 00:52:55,470
other than you know say like secret

1008
00:53:00,410 --> 00:52:59,040
terrestrial aircraft oh I think it

1009
00:53:06,010 --> 00:53:00,420
started pretty early

1010
00:53:11,470 --> 00:53:06,020
one thing I investigated was that it was

1011
00:53:16,220 --> 00:53:11,480
Cordell Hull who was what it was a

1012
00:53:19,100 --> 00:53:16,230
well-known statesman and he would he a

1013
00:53:23,150 --> 00:53:19,110
Roosevelt asked him to be his vice

1014
00:53:27,020 --> 00:53:23,160
president he was considered the founder

1015
00:53:30,460 --> 00:53:27,030
of the United Nations he was a very high

1016
00:53:34,720 --> 00:53:30,470
person in the government and we

1017
00:53:39,110 --> 00:53:34,730
interviewed the daughters of his cousin

1018
00:53:41,180 --> 00:53:39,120
his cousin was close to him and his and

1019
00:53:44,830 --> 00:53:41,190
they said they couldn't report it until

1020
00:53:48,050 --> 00:53:44,840
after everybody died and everything and

1021
00:53:52,730 --> 00:53:48,060
they said because he that Cordell Hall

1022
00:53:53,750 --> 00:53:52,740
took the cousin into a chamber a big

1023
00:53:57,380 --> 00:53:53,760
chamber

1024
00:54:00,920 --> 00:53:57,390
under the white house and they had four

1025
00:54:04,550 --> 00:54:00,930
bodies in jars with formaldehyde and

1026
00:54:09,890 --> 00:54:04,560
some kind of a Christ aircraft er disc

1027
00:54:12,080 --> 00:54:09,900
and this was around 1939 Wow and so

1028
00:54:16,040 --> 00:54:12,090
something might have been going on way

1029
00:54:17,870 --> 00:54:16,050
back then because I mean we couldn't see

1030
00:54:20,420 --> 00:54:17,880
a reason why Cordell Hall would be

1031
00:54:24,290 --> 00:54:20,430
delaying about it because he was a big

1032
00:54:28,070 --> 00:54:24,300
top government person now what do you

1033
00:54:30,050 --> 00:54:28,080
say good go ahead I'm sorry he was the

1034
00:54:33,560 --> 00:54:30,060
Secretary of State for the longest time

1035
00:54:36,340 --> 00:54:33,570
period of any no would you think that

1036
00:54:38,660 --> 00:54:36,350
something like that would still exist

1037
00:54:43,580 --> 00:54:38,670
under the White House I mean you know

1038
00:54:46,930 --> 00:54:43,590
considering today's a political climate

1039
00:54:49,550 --> 00:54:46,940
I just can't imagine that you know the

1040
00:54:51,170 --> 00:54:49,560
the real government and not and I'm not

1041
00:54:52,430 --> 00:54:51,180
talking about the elected officials but

1042
00:54:55,300 --> 00:54:52,440
you know the real government military

1043
00:54:59,870 --> 00:54:55,310
would allow such a thing to continue oh

1044
00:55:03,440 --> 00:54:59,880
no I mean we called somewhere in the

1045
00:55:07,070 --> 00:55:03,450
White House to ask and they laughed but

1046
00:55:10,100 --> 00:55:07,080
I'm sure that was back in 1939 so that

1047
00:55:14,030 --> 00:55:10,110
they would move things from there and

1048
00:55:16,120 --> 00:55:14,040
put in a more secure area it's probably

1049
00:55:21,410 --> 00:55:16,130
probably where the bowling alley is now

1050
00:55:24,470 --> 00:55:21,420
yeah you know I wanted to you know we we

1051
00:55:28,310 --> 00:55:24,480
talked a little bit about this during

1052
00:55:29,990 --> 00:55:28,320
the previous break at dr. Scott but you

1053
00:55:33,590 --> 00:55:30,000
had mentioned that the two had worked

1054
00:55:37,640 --> 00:55:33,600
for a company in Ohio that may have had

1055
00:55:40,520 --> 00:55:37,650
some dealings with wright-patterson with

1056
00:55:43,180 --> 00:55:40,530
the the possible examination of a detail

1057
00:55:47,660 --> 00:55:43,190
like you know uh possibly metal from

1058
00:55:51,530 --> 00:55:47,670
crashed UFOs now when you work there

1059
00:55:54,200 --> 00:55:51,540
had you heard you know any any

1060
00:55:55,640 --> 00:55:54,210
scuttlebutt you know about this kind of

1061
00:55:59,720 --> 00:55:55,650
activity because I know you know the

1062
00:56:01,190 --> 00:55:59,730
official official is always in a denial

1063
00:56:02,510 --> 00:56:01,200
of course not that silly nothing like

1064
00:56:04,460 --> 00:56:02,520
that ever happened you know but then you

1065
00:56:07,160 --> 00:56:04,470
know people who who actually work in

1066
00:56:10,970 --> 00:56:07,170
these places they were just like yeah

1067
00:56:15,320 --> 00:56:10,980
whose stuff did that leave well there

1068
00:56:19,160 --> 00:56:15,330
was a lot of gossip and scuttlebutt that

1069
00:56:23,180 --> 00:56:19,170
I heard and one thing I reported that

1070
00:56:28,630 --> 00:56:23,190
was pretty much a smoking gun I reported

1071
00:56:32,050 --> 00:56:28,640
in 1994 and something I wrote up that

1072
00:56:37,160 --> 00:56:32,060
one of the scientists there said he had

1073
00:56:40,760 --> 00:56:37,170
been working on ET material and he said

1074
00:56:42,020 --> 00:56:40,770
he had a beam that had some kind of

1075
00:56:44,840 --> 00:56:42,030
writing on it he was supposed to

1076
00:56:48,980 --> 00:56:44,850
decipher it what was interesting about

1077
00:56:54,280 --> 00:56:48,990
it was that Mattel had done a study of

1078
00:56:58,420 --> 00:56:54,290
UFOs a true good study in 1952 that was

1079
00:57:03,050 --> 00:56:58,430
conducted under Project Blue Book and

1080
00:57:07,790 --> 00:57:03,060
they had they had hired scientists to do

1081
00:57:09,860 --> 00:57:07,800
this they were supposed to do a quest

1082
00:57:12,800 --> 00:57:09,870
make a questionnaire and then do a

1083
00:57:15,500 --> 00:57:12,810
statistical study of the project

1084
00:57:18,020 --> 00:57:15,510
Bluebook information but what was

1085
00:57:20,270 --> 00:57:18,030
mysterious to everybody was that they

1086
00:57:25,850 --> 00:57:20,280
hired metallurgist to do this which

1087
00:57:30,110 --> 00:57:25,860
isn't exactly their field and I found

1088
00:57:33,500 --> 00:57:30,120
out that the man that reported that was

1089
00:57:36,740 --> 00:57:33,510
a top scientist he was listed in

1090
00:57:40,040 --> 00:57:36,750
American men of science and he did a lot

1091
00:57:42,080 --> 00:57:40,050
of research and published papers and he

1092
00:57:45,170 --> 00:57:42,090
also published papers with the people

1093
00:57:48,080 --> 00:57:45,180
that were that we knew of the been a

1094
00:57:52,160 --> 00:57:48,090
part of this study from wright-patterson

1095
00:57:56,060 --> 00:57:52,170
and so this mate and at that time nobody

1096
00:58:00,590 --> 00:57:56,070
ever heard of Roswell at the time he

1097
00:58:05,420 --> 00:58:00,600
reported which is in the 1950s so I

1098
00:58:09,680 --> 00:58:05,430
reported in 1994 I think and way later

1099
00:58:11,540 --> 00:58:09,690
about 19 about 2009 or something so they

1100
00:58:17,270 --> 00:58:11,550
contacted me about it and they wrote it

1101
00:58:20,430 --> 00:58:17,280
in carries and Smith's book witness

1102
00:58:25,650 --> 00:58:20,440
Durazo which was a top seller

1103
00:58:31,680 --> 00:58:25,660
and they it was reported all over on the

1104
00:58:36,680 --> 00:58:31,690
internet for quite a while so we got

1105
00:58:40,950 --> 00:58:36,690
that and there was a lot of speculation

1106
00:58:44,670 --> 00:58:40,960
way way back in the 1950s when they did

1107
00:58:49,920 --> 00:58:44,680
that study that they were studying

1108
00:58:53,400 --> 00:58:49,930
material from UFOs or ET material

1109
00:58:56,520 --> 00:58:53,410
because they had the people that did the

1110
00:58:59,910 --> 00:58:56,530
study were metallurgist and so that

1111
00:59:02,490 --> 00:58:59,920
seemed free shiet in the 1980s around

1112
00:59:05,040 --> 00:59:02,500
1980s when the first information about

1113
00:59:07,790 --> 00:59:05,050
roswell came out but there were a number

1114
00:59:11,310 --> 00:59:07,800
of studies way back before that at

1115
00:59:13,440 --> 00:59:11,320
Battelle and several other places where

1116
00:59:15,960 --> 00:59:13,450
there were reports that they had given

1117
00:59:18,420 --> 00:59:15,970
people some type of metal and they were

1118
00:59:22,050 --> 00:59:18,430
supposed to figure out what it was so

1119
00:59:25,140 --> 00:59:22,060
it's possible that they were that Wright

1120
00:59:29,490 --> 00:59:25,150
Patterson was farming out some actual

1121
00:59:31,320 --> 00:59:29,500
debris and possibly Roswell debris now

1122
00:59:33,240 --> 00:59:31,330
you think that you personally think

1123
00:59:40,200 --> 00:59:33,250
there's a good chance that that did

1124
00:59:44,160 --> 00:59:40,210
happen well I think I think from what I

1125
00:59:47,010 --> 00:59:44,170
found out they I think the Wright

1126
00:59:49,530 --> 00:59:47,020
Patterson was probably swarming out

1127
00:59:53,040 --> 00:59:49,540
farming out some material for people

1128
00:59:55,100 --> 00:59:53,050
look at I don't know you know I wouldn't

1129
00:59:58,710 --> 00:59:55,110
say this is necessary Roswell but it was

1130
01:00:02,430 --> 00:59:58,720
back in the night early 50s around that

1131
01:00:04,560 --> 01:00:02,440
time yes and there were several other

1132
01:00:07,040 --> 01:00:04,570
companies that seem to be the single

1133
01:00:11,220 --> 01:00:07,050
received material from wright-patterson

1134
01:00:14,940 --> 01:00:11,230
and thought it was et although nobody

1135
01:00:17,970 --> 01:00:14,950
understood it until Roswell came out now

1136
01:00:22,200 --> 01:00:17,980
you know around that same period you had

1137
01:00:24,390 --> 01:00:22,210
the I guess the birth of the the

1138
01:00:26,100 --> 01:00:24,400
organization the national investigations

1139
01:00:28,560 --> 01:00:26,110
Committee on the aerial phenomena night

1140
01:00:32,340 --> 01:00:28,570
cap now it's been pointed out over the

1141
01:00:34,350 --> 01:00:32,350
years that the board of directors of the

1142
01:00:37,680 --> 01:00:34,360
major Kehoe's group there

1143
01:00:40,830 --> 01:00:37,690
was kind of heavy heavily laden with the

1144
01:00:42,930 --> 01:00:40,840
CIA and government types do you you

1145
01:00:46,590 --> 01:00:42,940
think that they were bought into this

1146
01:00:50,940 --> 01:00:46,600
and instead of to push for disclosure to

1147
01:00:54,990 --> 01:00:50,950
really cast a bit of disinformation on

1148
01:00:56,610 --> 01:00:55,000
the into the field well yes I mean

1149
01:00:57,360 --> 01:00:56,620
that's what I've heard I wasn't a member

1150
01:01:00,240 --> 01:00:57,370
of myself

1151
01:01:03,480 --> 01:01:00,250
you know firsthand but that's how I've

1152
01:01:06,390 --> 01:01:03,490
heard from a number of people and the

1153
01:01:11,520 --> 01:01:06,400
government does do that I've met several

1154
01:01:13,290 --> 01:01:11,530
disinformation agents myself which and I

1155
01:01:17,400 --> 01:01:13,300
don't know what the motive is but the

1156
01:01:19,250 --> 01:01:17,410
government has gone way out and gone to

1157
01:01:24,750 --> 01:01:19,260
a lot of effort to spread disinformation

1158
01:01:27,960 --> 01:01:24,760
and spent money on do you think that

1159
01:01:32,970 --> 01:01:27,970
there is a okay Project Blue Book was

1160
01:01:35,960 --> 01:01:32,980
closed when in 1969 is there some sort

1161
01:01:41,340 --> 01:01:35,970
of project that still might be going on

1162
01:01:45,060 --> 01:01:41,350
behind the public's back well I worked

1163
01:01:50,310 --> 01:01:45,070
for the Defense Intelligence Agency at

1164
01:01:52,620 --> 01:01:50,320
that time and I was working for a

1165
01:01:55,340 --> 01:01:52,630
section called the air order of battle

1166
01:01:58,560 --> 01:01:55,350
and what we were supposed to do was a

1167
01:02:00,840 --> 01:01:58,570
section of the world we were supposed to

1168
01:02:04,400 --> 01:02:00,850
look down from satellite photography and

1169
01:02:07,170 --> 01:02:04,410
identify anything that was flying and

1170
01:02:11,550 --> 01:02:07,180
you'd think that this would be pertinent

1171
01:02:13,620 --> 01:02:11,560
to the UFO investigation that they ought

1172
01:02:14,130 --> 01:02:13,630
to say you know look for UFOs or

1173
01:02:16,830 --> 01:02:14,140
something

1174
01:02:21,230 --> 01:02:16,840
but nobody did even though we would be

1175
01:02:26,550 --> 01:02:21,240
the point person people to see that and

1176
01:02:28,740 --> 01:02:26,560
when I was working there my supervisors

1177
01:02:30,780 --> 01:02:28,750
and they were kind of high up I was in a

1178
01:02:34,560 --> 01:02:30,790
PhD type position but they were higher

1179
01:02:38,730 --> 01:02:34,570
than me actually reported a UFO on the

1180
01:02:42,170 --> 01:02:38,740
film which would be which was what we

1181
01:02:44,320 --> 01:02:42,180
were supposed to do it was our duty and

1182
01:02:46,990 --> 01:02:44,330
it went up

1183
01:02:49,420 --> 01:02:47,000
and the I think it went to the CIA or

1184
01:02:52,870 --> 01:02:49,430
whoever the higher-ups were and they

1185
01:02:55,860 --> 01:02:52,880
said it was a fall in the belt and what

1186
01:02:59,710 --> 01:02:55,870
did what what does the the picture show

1187
01:03:01,680 --> 01:02:59,720
it looked like well they showed me where

1188
01:03:07,210 --> 01:03:01,690
it was and I took the it was really

1189
01:03:09,550 --> 01:03:07,220
classified film and I was able to change

1190
01:03:13,480 --> 01:03:09,560
it was on two different missions and the

1191
01:03:16,900 --> 01:03:13,490
missions or 90 minutes apart a lot of

1192
01:03:21,370 --> 01:03:16,910
satellite moves around and so this was

1193
01:03:26,700 --> 01:03:21,380
on two different missions and I was able

1194
01:03:31,240 --> 01:03:26,710
to photographically get them get the to

1195
01:03:33,010 --> 01:03:31,250
the object on both photographs to the

1196
01:03:37,260 --> 01:03:33,020
same size and everything looked at it in

1197
01:03:40,420 --> 01:03:37,270
stereo and it looked like a domed object

1198
01:03:43,150 --> 01:03:40,430
it was it moved a little bit it was over

1199
01:03:46,080 --> 01:03:43,160
water and you could tell it from the

1200
01:03:49,210 --> 01:03:46,090
wave pattern it wasn't in the water and

1201
01:03:53,500 --> 01:03:49,220
it was shaped nothing like any of the

1202
01:03:57,010 --> 01:03:53,510
aircraft that we were studying that at

1203
01:04:01,380 --> 01:03:57,020
that country had or even was close to it

1204
01:04:04,990 --> 01:04:01,390
and so they reported it and the

1205
01:04:08,110 --> 01:04:05,000
higher-ups just insisted it was a flaw

1206
01:04:11,110 --> 01:04:08,120
in the film which it wasn't and you'd

1207
01:04:13,150 --> 01:04:11,120
think that when we we were supposedly

1208
01:04:16,180 --> 01:04:13,160
the experts when we report something

1209
01:04:18,910 --> 01:04:16,190
like that they would consider it and if

1210
01:04:20,710 --> 01:04:18,920
it was something if it was nothing they

1211
01:04:22,360 --> 01:04:20,720
should discuss it with us and be polite

1212
01:04:24,610 --> 01:04:22,370
and say you made a mistake and here's

1213
01:04:27,190 --> 01:04:24,620
why but instead they said this is a flaw

1214
01:04:32,110 --> 01:04:27,200
in the film which it obviously wasn't

1215
01:04:34,590 --> 01:04:32,120
and my supervisors had other people

1216
01:04:36,850 --> 01:04:34,600
study it that studied the density in the

1217
01:04:39,250 --> 01:04:36,860
sensitivity of the film they said no

1218
01:04:42,790 --> 01:04:39,260
this is a real object so that seemed

1219
01:04:44,470 --> 01:04:42,800
very funny that some so I thought some

1220
01:04:46,480 --> 01:04:44,480
place way out in the government because

1221
01:04:48,670 --> 01:04:46,490
we had real high security clearances

1222
01:04:50,650 --> 01:04:48,680
well now whether we're there witnesses

1223
01:04:53,530 --> 01:04:50,660
on the ground who saw this as well or

1224
01:04:56,980 --> 01:04:53,540
did it disappear on the photographic

1225
01:04:57,750 --> 01:04:56,990
film we just had it on satellite

1226
01:05:00,900 --> 01:04:57,760
photography

1227
01:05:02,490 --> 01:05:00,910
there was we didn't connect with the

1228
01:05:03,420 --> 01:05:02,500
people that were studying on the ground

1229
01:05:05,550 --> 01:05:03,430
so I don't know

1230
01:05:09,090 --> 01:05:05,560
I would I've always sort of hoped that

1231
01:05:12,540 --> 01:05:09,100
maybe I would hear something that it's

1232
01:05:16,170 --> 01:05:12,550
in its Russia I mean you know around

1233
01:05:19,380 --> 01:05:16,180
that area and so I don't know I wouldn't

1234
01:05:21,360 --> 01:05:19,390
know if there were reports I mean maybe

1235
01:05:23,840 --> 01:05:21,370
the the people that were higher up

1236
01:05:26,820 --> 01:05:23,850
didn't know reports and did know that

1237
01:05:29,340 --> 01:05:26,830
somebody's seen things and reported it

1238
01:05:31,950 --> 01:05:29,350
but they sure gave us some bad

1239
01:05:35,870 --> 01:05:31,960
information and three us like we reached

1240
01:05:38,100 --> 01:05:35,880
nothing oh boy now did you see other

1241
01:05:42,420 --> 01:05:38,110
what you would consider to be either

1242
01:05:45,290 --> 01:05:42,430
photographic or physical evidence that

1243
01:05:53,940 --> 01:05:49,820
well how about any of these like

1244
01:05:55,080 --> 01:05:53,950
ground-level alike um Oh Ted Phillips is

1245
01:05:59,010 --> 01:05:55,090
investigating you know the physical

1246
01:06:01,890 --> 01:05:59,020
trace cases where things actually seem

1247
01:06:04,470 --> 01:06:01,900
to land and Euler leave burn rings of

1248
01:06:07,080 --> 01:06:04,480
some kind or indentions in the ground

1249
01:06:09,350 --> 01:06:07,090
any evidence for that or anything you

1250
01:06:12,240 --> 01:06:09,360
looked into personally in that regard

1251
01:06:16,550 --> 01:06:12,250
yes I have

1252
01:06:20,850 --> 01:06:16,560
I looked into one where a farmer

1253
01:06:23,850 --> 01:06:20,860
reported in his alfalfa field in a I

1254
01:06:26,490 --> 01:06:23,860
looked at the area - in an area where

1255
01:06:30,210 --> 01:06:26,500
you couldn't see it from any place just

1256
01:06:34,650 --> 01:06:30,220
a totally places you could only see it

1257
01:06:38,700 --> 01:06:34,660
from the field there was a big burn he

1258
01:06:41,270 --> 01:06:38,710
reported a fired cheese I mean they

1259
01:06:44,700 --> 01:06:41,280
didn't believe in UFOs or anything and

1260
01:06:50,550 --> 01:06:44,710
it was in Alabama that was around me

1261
01:06:53,310 --> 01:06:50,560
high the alfalfa was just turned black

1262
01:06:57,660 --> 01:06:53,320
and burned clear down into its roots it

1263
01:06:59,400 --> 01:06:57,670
was standing the fire chief said alfalfa

1264
01:07:01,290 --> 01:06:59,410
doesn't catch on fire this was really

1265
01:07:04,320 --> 01:07:01,300
wet out outfit because it feel it was

1266
01:07:07,140 --> 01:07:04,330
water in the fields - and I tried that

1267
01:07:09,330 --> 01:07:07,150
out and I'll have to catch on fire the

1268
01:07:11,010 --> 01:07:09,340
fire chief was right I think you can

1269
01:07:13,980 --> 01:07:11,020
microwave it and

1270
01:07:16,260 --> 01:07:13,990
have it do something like that but I did

1271
01:07:20,910 --> 01:07:16,270
a lot of studying on it to see what was

1272
01:07:23,760 --> 01:07:20,920
going on and I found nothing I didn't

1273
01:07:26,820 --> 01:07:23,770
hear about until after they had already

1274
01:07:33,990 --> 01:07:26,830
mowed the hay once but there was a big

1275
01:07:38,730 --> 01:07:34,000
burn spot for a long ways and I did I

1276
01:07:42,180 --> 01:07:38,740
had I took samples and a chemist study

1277
01:07:44,220 --> 01:07:42,190
them and he couldn't find anything weird

1278
01:07:46,140 --> 01:07:44,230
except for one compound I forget where

1279
01:07:49,920 --> 01:07:46,150
it was but it was like it had been

1280
01:07:52,710 --> 01:07:49,930
damaged by heat but why would there be a

1281
01:07:55,680 --> 01:07:52,720
big burning house fells of yellow from

1282
01:08:00,690 --> 01:07:55,690
here I mean there was no tracks around

1283
01:08:03,630 --> 01:08:00,700
it and nothing was amazed so how long

1284
01:08:07,380 --> 01:08:03,640
does it happened as far as physical

1285
01:08:09,660 --> 01:08:07,390
objects pieces of a wreckage a piece of

1286
01:08:15,240 --> 01:08:09,670
metal out of place and ever seen

1287
01:08:20,850 --> 01:08:15,250
anything like that now except that I've

1288
01:08:23,970 --> 01:08:20,860
heard that some of the companies around

1289
01:08:28,920 --> 01:08:23,980
in Ohio had been sent material to

1290
01:08:31,910 --> 01:08:28,930
investigate of course now we had I

1291
01:08:35,780 --> 01:08:31,920
remember John keel one time I gave me a

1292
01:08:39,030 --> 01:08:35,790
envelope full of what looked like

1293
01:08:40,950 --> 01:08:39,040
Metallica foil which they said had

1294
01:08:44,030 --> 01:08:40,960
fallen the you know from a UFO but I

1295
01:08:46,620 --> 01:08:44,040
always suspected that was the type of

1296
01:08:50,310 --> 01:08:46,630
well for lack of a better word tinsel

1297
01:08:54,630 --> 01:08:50,320
that they used to Jam radar chaff yeah

1298
01:08:56,850 --> 01:08:54,640
yes I I had somebody report that too but

1299
01:09:00,930 --> 01:08:56,860
that's what he thought it was the radar

1300
01:09:02,490 --> 01:09:00,940
decoy type thing I mean he found some of

1301
01:09:07,110 --> 01:09:02,500
these field but he didn't think it was

1302
01:09:11,990 --> 01:09:07,120
anything except dropped by a plane at

1303
01:09:14,190 --> 01:09:12,000
Mattel you've heard of angel hair oh yes

1304
01:09:16,590 --> 01:09:14,200
well somebody that worked there said

1305
01:09:18,980 --> 01:09:16,600
that he was in an office of one of the

1306
01:09:22,830 --> 01:09:18,990
people that worked there and there was a

1307
01:09:24,930 --> 01:09:22,840
container it said angel hair and he

1308
01:09:28,860 --> 01:09:24,940
found out it was from a UFOs

1309
01:09:34,430 --> 01:09:28,870
Ben I don't remember the year probably

1310
01:09:38,039 --> 01:09:34,440
in 1950s but that this whole school of

1311
01:09:40,950 --> 01:09:38,049
teachers and students were outside and

1312
01:09:44,519 --> 01:09:40,960
watched this big object up above and

1313
01:09:46,499 --> 01:09:44,529
then all this angel hair fell and they

1314
01:09:48,990 --> 01:09:46,509
collected samples and somehow even

1315
01:09:51,539 --> 01:09:49,000
though the Air Force and everything says

1316
01:09:54,900 --> 01:09:51,549
well nothing happened that it wound up

1317
01:09:59,970 --> 01:09:54,910
in a container in somebody's office in

1318
01:10:02,250 --> 01:09:59,980
the tell em course now I always reported

1319
01:10:04,140 --> 01:10:02,260
usually with the angel here if you took

1320
01:10:07,350 --> 01:10:04,150
a little of the angel hair would

1321
01:10:11,189 --> 01:10:07,360
dissolve so it's kind of like a buddy in

1322
01:10:13,950 --> 01:10:11,199
there you oh maybe a yeah but because if

1323
01:10:16,890 --> 01:10:13,960
you will you ear hits it it's not going

1324
01:10:19,229 --> 01:10:16,900
to be there is God so all right turning

1325
01:10:21,600 --> 01:10:19,239
we're talking and when we're gone we're

1326
01:10:24,120 --> 01:10:21,610
coming up on our last step right then

1327
01:10:26,490 --> 01:10:24,130
we'll be packed as a food fabulous yes

1328
01:10:29,910 --> 01:10:26,500
that both have a wealth of information

1329
01:10:33,570 --> 01:10:29,920
here I mean I I'm very I'm very

1330
01:10:35,130 --> 01:10:33,580
impressed I'm so impressed that I'm

1331
01:10:39,000 --> 01:10:35,140
going to revolt in their books to that

1332
01:10:41,850 --> 01:10:39,010
good I go to sleep now back to exploring

1333
01:10:44,189 --> 01:10:41,860
the bizarre with two of the most

1334
01:10:47,970 --> 01:10:44,199
electrifying researchers with a paranoid

1335
01:10:50,170 --> 01:10:47,980
your hosts Timothy Becky Lee and King

1336
01:10:53,890 --> 01:10:50,180
Swartz

1337
01:10:57,070 --> 01:10:53,900
you know Tim I can't figure out why this

1338
01:11:00,520 --> 01:10:57,080
guy thinks that this show is so bizarre

1339
01:11:02,710 --> 01:11:00,530
I mean come on we we bring the sub we

1340
01:11:05,320 --> 01:11:02,720
bring all these subjects right down to

1341
01:11:08,440 --> 01:11:05,330
earth but breaking breaking news

1342
01:11:11,560 --> 01:11:08,450
breaking news there is a UFO day a

1343
01:11:14,440 --> 01:11:11,570
parade and festival in the town of Pine

1344
01:11:19,810 --> 01:11:14,450
Bush New York which is about it's a

1345
01:11:22,060 --> 01:11:19,820
Saturday May 20th to 2017 but I believe

1346
01:11:24,460 --> 01:11:22,070
it's an annual event to celebrate the

1347
01:11:28,530 --> 01:11:24,470
mass UFO sightings and flap that went on

1348
01:11:31,690 --> 01:11:28,540
there probably a decade or more ago and

1349
01:11:33,790 --> 01:11:31,700
if anybody has transportation they can

1350
01:11:35,800 --> 01:11:33,800
provide from Manhattan there might be

1351
01:11:40,240 --> 01:11:35,810
several people who would like to take a

1352
01:11:44,520 --> 01:11:40,250
ride up there with you can contact me of

1353
01:11:46,840 --> 01:11:44,530
course at Mr UFO 8 at hotmail.com and I

1354
01:11:49,360 --> 01:11:46,850
think it should be an interesting day I

1355
01:11:51,970 --> 01:11:49,370
understand that Linda they're going to

1356
01:11:54,520 --> 01:11:51,980
be lectures and talks and in addition to

1357
01:11:56,350 --> 01:11:54,530
the parade and all the events when does

1358
01:11:59,440 --> 01:11:56,360
it kick off about 11:00 in the morning

1359
01:12:03,130 --> 01:11:59,450
I believe it at 10 o'clock it starts

1360
01:12:07,240 --> 01:12:03,140
I'll be speaking at 11:00 the parade is

1361
01:12:10,920 --> 01:12:07,250
at 3:00 p.m. and then starting at 4:00

1362
01:12:13,360 --> 01:12:10,930
p.m. there is a series of other lectures

1363
01:12:16,480 --> 01:12:13,370
and who's speaking I know you mentioned

1364
01:12:21,580 --> 01:12:16,490
Travis Walton Travis Walton Mark

1365
01:12:24,010 --> 01:12:21,590
Dantonio and and several other speakers

1366
01:12:25,020 --> 01:12:24,020
like can't recall at this point but they

1367
01:12:27,670 --> 01:12:25,030
have their eye

1368
01:12:28,870 --> 01:12:27,680
sure go ahead well know I was going to

1369
01:12:31,270 --> 01:12:28,880
say wonderful you know they ought to

1370
01:12:33,970 --> 01:12:31,280
really have a some sort of a publicist

1371
01:12:35,800 --> 01:12:33,980
because I mean I only vaguely hear about

1372
01:12:38,890 --> 01:12:35,810
it every year it doesn't get all that

1373
01:12:41,170 --> 01:12:38,900
much attention while the Roswell

1374
01:12:43,150 --> 01:12:41,180
festival goes on and on and on a year

1375
01:12:46,300 --> 01:12:43,160
after year after year I don't know but

1376
01:12:48,550 --> 01:12:46,310
it sounds like a very interesting and

1377
01:12:52,330 --> 01:12:48,560
entertaining event and one can bring the

1378
01:12:54,220 --> 01:12:52,340
the family and I don't know do they

1379
01:12:57,160 --> 01:12:54,230
allow you to look for UFOs I know they

1380
01:12:58,540 --> 01:12:57,170
were harassing it at some point people

1381
01:13:01,090 --> 01:12:58,550
that were staying there late at night

1382
01:13:04,210 --> 01:13:01,100
parked on the side roads looking up into

1383
01:13:07,240 --> 01:13:04,220
the sky yes they actually made it

1384
01:13:09,610 --> 01:13:07,250
illegal to Skywatch and could get

1385
01:13:12,100 --> 01:13:09,620
ticketed or arrested if you pulled over

1386
01:13:14,230 --> 01:13:12,110
your car and looked up at the sky well I

1387
01:13:15,820 --> 01:13:14,240
just want a night and I spent a night in

1388
01:13:19,360 --> 01:13:15,830
jail here there for some things but

1389
01:13:21,490 --> 01:13:19,370
never for UFOs sky watch and of course

1390
01:13:24,760 --> 01:13:21,500
now they have the festival they have a

1391
01:13:27,220 --> 01:13:24,770
designated viewing area and there's even

1392
01:13:31,240 --> 01:13:27,230
talk about possibly building a

1393
01:13:33,730 --> 01:13:31,250
watchtower for you uh at a smart chamber

1394
01:13:37,150 --> 01:13:33,740
of commerce what is how are currently

1395
01:13:38,980 --> 01:13:37,160
common but ok well maybe we'll see if

1396
01:13:41,790 --> 01:13:38,990
anybody's going to listen to the show

1397
01:13:44,340 --> 01:13:41,800
please let us know I mean would be

1398
01:13:52,390 --> 01:13:44,350
exciting to meet some of our our

1399
01:13:55,210 --> 01:13:52,400
regulars and ill regulars huh we're were

1400
01:14:02,440 --> 01:13:55,220
the irregular hi I was going to say hey

1401
01:14:04,360 --> 01:14:02,450
ok missing time and anti-gravity how do

1402
01:14:05,170 --> 01:14:04,370
they kind of tie in together Ellen in

1403
01:14:10,180 --> 01:14:05,180
the Hudson Valley

1404
01:14:14,380 --> 01:14:10,190
or do they well um we have quite a lot

1405
01:14:17,590 --> 01:14:14,390
of instances of missing time and that

1406
01:14:21,610 --> 01:14:17,600
all goes with the you know the contact

1407
01:14:24,160 --> 01:14:21,620
the experiencer phenomena had mentioned

1408
01:14:28,800 --> 01:14:24,170
before which is far more prevalent than

1409
01:14:30,700 --> 01:14:28,810
I ever thought and all these years of

1410
01:14:33,370 --> 01:14:30,710
researching and interviewing other

1411
01:14:37,600 --> 01:14:33,380
people I kept thinking well at least

1412
01:14:40,360 --> 01:14:37,610
I've never forgotten anything and I had

1413
01:14:44,140 --> 01:14:40,370
a sighting in the 70s and I used to keep

1414
01:14:48,220 --> 01:14:44,150
a diary so last fall I said you know I

1415
01:14:50,800 --> 01:14:48,230
need to find the date of that sighting

1416
01:14:53,140 --> 01:14:50,810
so I sat there going through page after

1417
01:14:55,390 --> 01:14:53,150
page it was kind of freaked me out

1418
01:14:59,890 --> 01:14:55,400
knowing what my life was like in the 70s

1419
01:15:03,460 --> 01:14:59,900
yeah and I came across the date it was

1420
01:15:06,730 --> 01:15:03,470
in December of 79 and it was like

1421
01:15:10,090 --> 01:15:06,740
reading the the writing of a complete

1422
01:15:14,530 --> 01:15:10,100
stranger because I'm describing standing

1423
01:15:17,449 --> 01:15:14,540
by this lake watching this UFO zigzag

1424
01:15:19,759 --> 01:15:17,459
back and forth for an hour

1425
01:15:23,660 --> 01:15:19,769
through binoculars and I have absolutely

1426
01:15:25,279 --> 01:15:23,670
no recollection of that today well

1427
01:15:27,679 --> 01:15:25,289
that's kind of like me a channeling

1428
01:15:30,109 --> 01:15:27,689
there in the the field in Pine Bush I

1429
01:15:33,049 --> 01:15:30,119
mean this one gal said well you know

1430
01:15:34,609 --> 01:15:33,059
yeah you were channeling and telling us

1431
01:15:36,469 --> 01:15:34,619
who was onboard the ship and pointing

1432
01:15:38,750 --> 01:15:36,479
out the lights in the sky I have no

1433
01:15:41,600 --> 01:15:38,760
relation recollection of that either and

1434
01:15:44,239 --> 01:15:41,610
it wasn't like a you know pub crawl or

1435
01:15:46,069 --> 01:15:44,249
anything like that it was a very

1436
01:15:48,169 --> 01:15:46,079
sobering a weekend but I don't remember

1437
01:15:50,859 --> 01:15:48,179
a bit of one that I don't know it just

1438
01:15:54,589 --> 01:15:50,869
kind of boggles the the mind but that's

1439
01:15:56,540 --> 01:15:54,599
yeah it's been erased by what we talked

1440
01:15:59,689 --> 01:15:56,550
about synchronicities and somebody's in

1441
01:16:02,870 --> 01:15:59,699
control of that and you'll have to read

1442
01:16:06,319 --> 01:16:02,880
our book on the Phillip K a dick matrix

1443
01:16:09,109 --> 01:16:06,329
is a matrix madness to understand it a

1444
01:16:12,739 --> 01:16:09,119
little but someone that can put things

1445
01:16:14,870 --> 01:16:12,749
into your mind and someone can erase

1446
01:16:17,239 --> 01:16:14,880
them just kind of like in Total Recall

1447
01:16:20,239 --> 01:16:17,249
of course which is one of his movies

1448
01:16:22,729 --> 01:16:20,249
based on one of his books it's it's

1449
01:16:26,330 --> 01:16:22,739
extremely disconcerting because you know

1450
01:16:29,810 --> 01:16:26,340
I I like my memory it's it served me

1451
01:16:32,060 --> 01:16:29,820
well over the years and I just cannot

1452
01:16:34,939 --> 01:16:32,070
believe it it's like I'm banging my head

1453
01:16:37,370 --> 01:16:34,949
against the wall trying to recollect

1454
01:16:39,109 --> 01:16:37,380
this and it's the best way I could

1455
01:16:41,359 --> 01:16:39,119
describe it it's looking at a large

1456
01:16:45,259 --> 01:16:41,369
painting but the center's been cut out

1457
01:16:48,350 --> 01:16:45,269
and it's it's just gone it is just not

1458
01:16:49,939 --> 01:16:48,360
there so I'm not saying I was abducted

1459
01:16:53,679 --> 01:16:49,949
or anything but something certainly

1460
01:16:57,919 --> 01:16:53,689
messed with my memory but it was a

1461
01:17:02,060 --> 01:16:57,929
sobering you know as you say thought and

1462
01:17:04,160 --> 01:17:02,070
it also reinforces when anyone has any

1463
01:17:07,669 --> 01:17:04,170
kind of sighting or paranormal

1464
01:17:10,520 --> 01:17:07,679
experience write it down as soon as you

1465
01:17:13,429 --> 01:17:10,530
can because memories change things

1466
01:17:14,509 --> 01:17:13,439
happen and you will at least have a

1467
01:17:18,830 --> 01:17:14,519
record of it

1468
01:17:20,179 --> 01:17:18,840
soon after whatever it is occurred yeah

1469
01:17:24,799 --> 01:17:20,189
you would just you would think that

1470
01:17:26,359 --> 01:17:24,809
something as extraordinary as that would

1471
01:17:28,910 --> 01:17:26,369
just stand out in your memory for the

1472
01:17:31,150 --> 01:17:28,920
rest of your life oh it had to have been

1473
01:17:35,050 --> 01:17:31,160
the most incredible thing I ever saw

1474
01:17:36,970 --> 01:17:35,060
and you know I I was an amateur

1475
01:17:39,400 --> 01:17:36,980
astronomer since I was a little kid

1476
01:17:43,540 --> 01:17:39,410
extremely familiar with the sky I taught

1477
01:17:45,810 --> 01:17:43,550
astronomy I write about astronomy so for

1478
01:17:48,100 --> 01:17:45,820
me to stand there and watch something

1479
01:17:51,910 --> 01:17:48,110
completely inexplicable through

1480
01:17:56,170 --> 01:17:51,920
binoculars at fairly close distance and

1481
01:17:58,860 --> 01:17:56,180
then the next day and for the next

1482
01:18:07,900 --> 01:17:58,870
however many years it's gone it's

1483
01:18:09,850 --> 01:18:07,910
absolutely gone in a previous section of

1484
01:18:12,700 --> 01:18:09,860
the show you were talking about the the

1485
01:18:15,490 --> 01:18:12,710
mass sightings or lay on a highway of

1486
01:18:17,740 --> 01:18:15,500
people of seeing this UFO you would

1487
01:18:20,290 --> 01:18:17,750
think that and I realized that at the

1488
01:18:23,350 --> 01:18:20,300
time that you know people didn't have

1489
01:18:24,850 --> 01:18:23,360
access to cameras like we do today but

1490
01:18:26,950 --> 01:18:24,860
you would have thought that somebody

1491
01:18:29,410 --> 01:18:26,960
would have had a camera and would have

1492
01:18:31,210 --> 01:18:29,420
tried to have taken a picture of this

1493
01:18:33,700 --> 01:18:31,220
you know triangular shaped UFO

1494
01:18:35,830 --> 01:18:33,710
considering how low it was over the

1495
01:18:39,670 --> 01:18:35,840
highway and how long the sighting

1496
01:18:41,800 --> 01:18:39,680
persistent yes there was some video

1497
01:18:45,340 --> 01:18:41,810
which you know video cameras weren't as

1498
01:18:50,560 --> 01:18:45,350
prevalent back then some photos there's

1499
01:18:53,380 --> 01:18:50,570
actually one excellent photo that it was

1500
01:18:56,500 --> 01:18:53,390
a photography student in high school

1501
01:18:59,560 --> 01:18:56,510
came out of his meeting that night and

1502
01:19:03,100 --> 01:18:59,570
that was the night of March 24th which

1503
01:19:07,150 --> 01:19:03,110
was that mass sighting and he snapped a

1504
01:19:11,560 --> 01:19:07,160
photo of quite good photo of a large

1505
01:19:14,860 --> 01:19:11,570
bright triangular object beaming a light

1506
01:19:15,580 --> 01:19:14,870
down to the ground and he brought it to

1507
01:19:18,400 --> 01:19:15,590
the police

1508
01:19:22,720 --> 01:19:18,410
who told him oh don't worry about it kid

1509
01:19:25,750 --> 01:19:22,730
it was a formation of planes so he stuck

1510
01:19:28,210 --> 01:19:25,760
it and you know a folder and it was in

1511
01:19:31,360 --> 01:19:28,220
his attic for the next thirty years till

1512
01:19:33,550 --> 01:19:31,370
I tracked him down and said are you the

1513
01:19:35,410 --> 01:19:33,560
same man who took that photo and he said

1514
01:19:37,840 --> 01:19:35,420
well why do you care about it and I said

1515
01:19:40,210 --> 01:19:37,850
did you look at what you took a

1516
01:19:43,120 --> 01:19:40,220
photograph of this is the best photo

1517
01:19:44,870 --> 01:19:43,130
from that flap and he says it but the

1518
01:19:48,520 --> 01:19:44,880
police told me it was

1519
01:19:53,570 --> 01:19:48,530
formation of planes it's like an idiot

1520
01:19:56,149 --> 01:19:53,580
univariate idiot yeah genius you're a

1521
01:19:58,879 --> 01:19:56,159
17-year old high school kid and the

1522
01:20:03,649 --> 01:19:58,889
police are telling you something you

1523
01:20:06,740 --> 01:20:03,659
know so but not as much photographic

1524
01:20:09,620 --> 01:20:06,750
evidence exists as of course I would

1525
01:20:11,600 --> 01:20:09,630
like well maybe it does it does and it's

1526
01:20:14,180 --> 01:20:11,610
out there well where and somebody is

1527
01:20:16,520 --> 01:20:14,190
listening to the show and can pull it

1528
01:20:19,220 --> 01:20:16,530
out of there bottom of their desk drawer

1529
01:20:22,459 --> 01:20:19,230
even if the photos are curled up we'll

1530
01:20:24,560 --> 01:20:22,469
take a look at it please please any

1531
01:20:28,160 --> 01:20:24,570
evidence and I'm still looking for

1532
01:20:31,850 --> 01:20:28,170
stories because the whole nature of this

1533
01:20:35,350 --> 01:20:31,860
phenomenon is is remarkable the size and

1534
01:20:40,640 --> 01:20:35,360
variety of craft the depth of people's

1535
01:20:43,610 --> 01:20:40,650
experiences it's it's remarkable you

1536
01:20:45,379 --> 01:20:43,620
know I remember seeing a remnant time

1537
01:20:49,600 --> 01:20:45,389
period a little bit afterwards it was a

1538
01:20:54,350 --> 01:20:49,610
UFO special on HBO and it had a

1539
01:20:58,640 --> 01:20:54,360
obviously it was a VHS camera of a you

1540
01:21:02,689 --> 01:20:58,650
know like some kind of a craft or object

1541
01:21:07,250 --> 01:21:02,699
there on the East Coast but then they

1542
01:21:11,540 --> 01:21:07,260
went and showed video of those Cessnas

1543
01:21:12,649 --> 01:21:11,550
and you can tell the difference I mean

1544
01:21:14,450 --> 01:21:12,659
you could hear the engines of the

1545
01:21:15,649 --> 01:21:14,460
Cessnas the lights were different you

1546
01:21:19,100 --> 01:21:15,659
know they have a side-by-side comparison

1547
01:21:21,220 --> 01:21:19,110
of the the actual UFO and assessments

1548
01:21:24,410 --> 01:21:21,230
and you know anybody who thought that

1549
01:21:26,899 --> 01:21:24,420
the the entire Hudson Valley UFO events

1550
01:21:28,930 --> 01:21:26,909
was caused by the senseless needs to

1551
01:21:31,490 --> 01:21:28,940
look at that footage

1552
01:21:34,129 --> 01:21:31,500
absolutely and I'm still hearing that to

1553
01:21:36,950 --> 01:21:34,139
this day when I was giving a conference

1554
01:21:38,689 --> 01:21:36,960
in Danbury Connecticut last year there

1555
01:21:41,689 --> 01:21:38,699
was an article in the local newspaper

1556
01:21:43,879 --> 01:21:41,699
and some woman jumps on and said oh my

1557
01:21:46,160 --> 01:21:43,889
father was one of the we called them the

1558
01:21:49,220 --> 01:21:46,170
Stormville flyers because the the

1559
01:21:51,860 --> 01:21:49,230
Cessnas flew out of Stormville and she

1560
01:21:54,350 --> 01:21:51,870
stated categorically every single

1561
01:21:56,360 --> 01:21:54,360
sighting can be attributed to the

1562
01:21:58,520 --> 01:21:56,370
Stormville flyers and somebody else

1563
01:22:02,360 --> 01:21:58,530
jumped on and said oh that explains

1564
01:22:06,740 --> 01:22:02,370
that it's it's just so frustrating that

1565
01:22:09,710 --> 01:22:06,750
here we are 30 35 years later and with

1566
01:22:12,800 --> 01:22:09,720
the magic wand of disinformation and

1567
01:22:16,220 --> 01:22:12,810
hoaxing we can wipe away one of the most

1568
01:22:19,010 --> 01:22:16,230
important flaps in all of history well

1569
01:22:25,220 --> 01:22:19,020
this is this has gone on and on and on

1570
01:22:28,280 --> 01:22:25,230
since you know 1947 and and before now

1571
01:22:31,400 --> 01:22:28,290
you mentioned also - in a release here

1572
01:22:34,730 --> 01:22:31,410
that I have anti-gravity now what is

1573
01:22:38,330 --> 01:22:34,740
that all about well I have been going

1574
01:22:41,450 --> 01:22:38,340
through any project Bluebook case

1575
01:22:44,540 --> 01:22:41,460
related to the Hudson Valley and western

1576
01:22:47,030 --> 01:22:44,550
Connecticut and of course anyone who's

1577
01:22:51,340 --> 01:22:47,040
done any work with Blue Book knows that

1578
01:22:55,940 --> 01:22:51,350
the project conclusion cards are a joke

1579
01:22:59,090 --> 01:22:55,950
an insult you can't go by them you have

1580
01:23:02,120 --> 01:22:59,100
to go through all of the pages of the

1581
01:23:06,160 --> 01:23:02,130
actual testimony in reports and there

1582
01:23:09,590 --> 01:23:06,170
was a case in 1960 in Connecticut that

1583
01:23:12,290 --> 01:23:09,600
some metallic substance fell to the

1584
01:23:15,340 --> 01:23:12,300
ground started a little fire actually

1585
01:23:19,030 --> 01:23:15,350
there was it fell in two locations and

1586
01:23:23,240 --> 01:23:19,040
the official conclusion was that it was

1587
01:23:28,360 --> 01:23:23,250
furnace slag now that would be the first

1588
01:23:30,980 --> 01:23:28,370
slag in history to fall from outer space

1589
01:23:34,400 --> 01:23:30,990
so right then I knew well this is

1590
01:23:39,200 --> 01:23:34,410
nonsense and if this was furnace leg why

1591
01:23:43,400 --> 01:23:39,210
is it a 73 page report so it turned out

1592
01:23:48,080 --> 01:23:43,410
that this metallic substance was a long

1593
01:23:52,520 --> 01:23:48,090
story short sent to t Townsend Brown oh

1594
01:23:54,890 --> 01:23:52,530
yeah Greg yes electrogravitics hey did

1595
01:23:58,310 --> 01:23:54,900
you did you know Linda the T Townsend

1596
01:24:02,450 --> 01:23:58,320
Brown was the first director of nightcap

1597
01:24:05,930 --> 01:24:02,460
before major Keyhoe no I did not yes he

1598
01:24:07,760 --> 01:24:05,940
was the original which leads me to

1599
01:24:10,790 --> 01:24:07,770
believe that there's some shenanigans

1600
01:24:12,299 --> 01:24:10,800
going on there but yes he was the

1601
01:24:14,129 --> 01:24:12,309
original director in

1602
01:24:16,220 --> 01:24:14,139
kiyo took over I think there's probably

1603
01:24:18,720 --> 01:24:16,230
about six months since the organization

1604
01:24:21,060 --> 01:24:18,730
started and you know how I know because

1605
01:24:23,250 --> 01:24:21,070
my former roommate who is now deceased

1606
01:24:25,549 --> 01:24:23,260
my good friend Harold spoken had the

1607
01:24:28,319 --> 01:24:25,559
original minutes to the first nightcap

1608
01:24:29,819 --> 01:24:28,329
and also check it if you check it in the

1609
01:24:32,430 --> 01:24:29,829
searches and you'll find it out I think

1610
01:24:34,740 --> 01:24:32,440
nobody nobody denies that but the IT

1611
01:24:37,379 --> 01:24:34,750
Townsend Brown was the first actual

1612
01:24:39,990 --> 01:24:37,389
director of NICAP so how's that there's

1613
01:24:44,100 --> 01:24:40,000
a there's a UFO in your bonnet or

1614
01:24:47,149 --> 01:24:44,110
something the hab solutely so he was

1615
01:24:51,299 --> 01:24:47,159
studying this sample and it why this

1616
01:24:53,430 --> 01:24:51,309
material came to him was because it can

1617
01:24:56,779 --> 01:24:53,440
even though it was in a sealed container

1618
01:24:59,879 --> 01:24:56,789
this metallic substance was losing mass

1619
01:25:02,129 --> 01:24:59,889
now there's reason you know it could be

1620
01:25:05,370 --> 01:25:02,139
outgassing there could you know could

1621
01:25:09,299 --> 01:25:05,380
pieces of it could be you know flaking

1622
01:25:14,520 --> 01:25:09,309
off microscopically but the real kicker

1623
01:25:16,620 --> 01:25:14,530
came when uh the hold on one second I'm

1624
01:25:20,700 --> 01:25:16,630
sorry I have to change phones because

1625
01:25:23,279 --> 01:25:20,710
I'm getting a beep the well a well in

1626
01:25:26,760 --> 01:25:23,289
the UFO field a beep can be a good thing

1627
01:25:29,279 --> 01:25:26,770
though uh yeah yes and it could also

1628
01:25:34,200 --> 01:25:29,289
mean I'm about to have missing Taher

1629
01:25:38,040 --> 01:25:34,210
time also so this substance had the

1630
01:25:43,680 --> 01:25:38,050
ability to make other material nearby

1631
01:25:45,330 --> 01:25:43,690
also lose mass and yes I think I fell

1632
01:25:48,060 --> 01:25:45,340
out of my chair at that point I'm like

1633
01:25:53,510 --> 01:25:48,070
wait a minute what there's nothing I

1634
01:25:55,890 --> 01:25:53,520
know you know that it could do that so

1635
01:25:59,100 --> 01:25:55,900
there were these letters back and forth

1636
01:26:03,169 --> 01:25:59,110
between major friend who was on Blue

1637
01:26:06,209 --> 01:26:03,179
Book at the time other scientists and

1638
01:26:09,390 --> 01:26:06,219
Townsend Brown was convinced this was

1639
01:26:12,870 --> 01:26:09,400
one of the most extraordinary substances

1640
01:26:14,790 --> 01:26:12,880
in history and that they were going to

1641
01:26:17,459 --> 01:26:14,800
do all this further testing they would

1642
01:26:19,680 --> 01:26:17,469
be final reports just how this you know

1643
01:26:22,560 --> 01:26:19,690
maybe they didn't know how but just to

1644
01:26:26,010 --> 01:26:22,570
what extent this metallic substance was

1645
01:26:30,510 --> 01:26:26,020
able to cause other substances to get

1646
01:26:34,950 --> 01:26:30,520
lighter to lose mass and the file ends

1647
01:26:39,210 --> 01:26:34,960
battle oh no final report no conclusions

1648
01:26:42,570 --> 01:26:39,220
no nothing and I could not find anything

1649
01:26:44,340 --> 01:26:42,580
else about this it stuck away at

1650
01:26:46,410 --> 01:26:44,350
wright-patterson Air Force Base that I

1651
01:26:52,280 --> 01:26:46,420
would guess right there you go probably

1652
01:26:55,380 --> 01:26:52,290
probably unless it completely you know

1653
01:26:56,130 --> 01:26:55,390
it sucks it sucks up the whole room with

1654
01:26:58,950 --> 01:26:56,140
it or something

1655
01:27:00,840 --> 01:26:58,960
all I'm you know I'm sure that they just

1656
01:27:03,180 --> 01:27:00,850
they didn't just end it there

1657
01:27:05,460 --> 01:27:03,190
somewhere there is the end of that

1658
01:27:07,080 --> 01:27:05,470
report you know we just don't have

1659
01:27:09,360 --> 01:27:07,090
access to it O'Brien I can see an

1660
01:27:12,480 --> 01:27:09,370
Indiana Jones movie based on this oh

1661
01:27:15,300 --> 01:27:12,490
yeah absolutely absolutely you know

1662
01:27:18,570 --> 01:27:15,310
clearly they did a lot more work on it

1663
01:27:21,690 --> 01:27:18,580
but it didn't eat it was I have a

1664
01:27:24,750 --> 01:27:21,700
feeling it was just so startling it

1665
01:27:28,140 --> 01:27:24,760
didn't even make the Bluebook you know

1666
01:27:31,770 --> 01:27:28,150
follow it or at least a comic book or a

1667
01:27:35,400 --> 01:27:31,780
graphic novel graphic novel about it

1668
01:27:37,740 --> 01:27:35,410
yeah oh that's a that's a great story

1669
01:27:41,700 --> 01:27:37,750
you'll be working on it by noon tomorrow

1670
01:27:45,930 --> 01:27:41,710
I predict now I wasn't wasn't a debris

1671
01:27:51,780 --> 01:27:45,940
that fell over Maury island described as

1672
01:27:53,700 --> 01:27:51,790
lag lights as well that one I am not as

1673
01:27:57,270 --> 01:27:53,710
familiar it was supposed to be some sort

1674
01:27:59,820 --> 01:27:57,280
of metallic material but I don't know

1675
01:28:02,550 --> 01:27:59,830
the nature of it yeah I seem to remember

1676
01:28:06,270 --> 01:28:02,560
was described as like swag or like I I

1677
01:28:09,960 --> 01:28:06,280
believe it's I believe dr. s Scott wrote

1678
01:28:11,880 --> 01:28:09,970
about that in her a marvelous book do

1679
01:28:14,570 --> 01:28:11,890
you have a remember the details of what

1680
01:28:17,580 --> 01:28:14,580
the but the substance look like that the

1681
01:28:24,420 --> 01:28:17,590
actually fell on the boat and and killed

1682
01:28:27,150 --> 01:28:24,430
the dog yes this man reported that these

1683
01:28:31,770 --> 01:28:27,160
donut shape UFOs came over Muir Island

1684
01:28:35,390 --> 01:28:31,780
and dropped stuff that injured his son

1685
01:28:38,800 --> 01:28:35,400
and killed his dog and different things

1686
01:28:42,400 --> 01:28:38,810
they showed it to Cass Arnold

1687
01:28:46,420 --> 01:28:42,410
and he saw what it looked like in some

1688
01:28:51,520 --> 01:28:46,430
real mysterious the fashion and then

1689
01:28:56,800 --> 01:28:51,530
later he was supposed to well later he

1690
01:28:59,560 --> 01:28:56,810
they talked to a military person the

1691
01:29:02,050 --> 01:28:59,570
military person said it was flagged and

1692
01:29:04,450 --> 01:29:02,060
he showed him a pile of slag and said

1693
01:29:06,940 --> 01:29:04,460
that's what this was and they didn't

1694
01:29:09,100 --> 01:29:06,950
know why the military person would be

1695
01:29:14,200 --> 01:29:09,110
saying that or know anything about it

1696
01:29:16,330 --> 01:29:14,210
but it was he was debunking it it

1697
01:29:19,900 --> 01:29:16,340
because they didn't think it looked like

1698
01:29:21,670 --> 01:29:19,910
what they saw from the people that said

1699
01:29:25,360 --> 01:29:21,680
it dropped which probably wasn't true

1700
01:29:27,960 --> 01:29:25,370
either but it looked different and then

1701
01:29:31,090 --> 01:29:27,970
later I mean he should have looks like a

1702
01:29:34,390 --> 01:29:31,100
pile of slag and it looked like this was

1703
01:29:38,620 --> 01:29:34,400
slag for sure a while later he was

1704
01:29:43,060 --> 01:29:38,630
supposed to load a carton of it into an

1705
01:29:45,880 --> 01:29:43,070
airplane the finders were saying they

1706
01:29:49,030 --> 01:29:45,890
wanted the pilots to take back the

1707
01:29:51,790 --> 01:29:49,040
pilots for military people and study the

1708
01:29:55,690 --> 01:29:51,800
pilots didn't want him and thought the

1709
01:29:59,170 --> 01:29:55,700
whole thing was a hoax but Arnold listed

1710
01:30:01,480 --> 01:29:59,180
the carton into the plane he said what

1711
01:30:03,460 --> 01:30:01,490
he saw looked like slag and it didn't

1712
01:30:06,820 --> 01:30:03,470
look like the original substance they'd

1713
01:30:11,620 --> 01:30:06,830
shown to him so there were several

1714
01:30:15,010 --> 01:30:11,630
reasons why they thought it was slag but

1715
01:30:17,140 --> 01:30:15,020
it didn't appear to be the substance

1716
01:30:21,370 --> 01:30:17,150
that the original fighter

1717
01:30:23,490 --> 01:30:21,380
and unfortunately the material the

1718
01:30:25,810 --> 01:30:23,500
substance was gathered up put into a

1719
01:30:28,660 --> 01:30:25,820
attache case and put on board a plane

1720
01:30:32,380 --> 01:30:28,670
with two Air Force officials and the

1721
01:30:35,110 --> 01:30:32,390
plane crashed and everyone fell to their

1722
01:30:39,730 --> 01:30:35,120
death you know and it's one of the the

1723
01:30:41,380 --> 01:30:39,740
tragedies I guess of I was gonna say UFO

1724
01:30:43,900 --> 01:30:41,390
research but we can't really blame it on

1725
01:30:46,090 --> 01:30:43,910
well I don't know maybe we we can but

1726
01:30:48,640 --> 01:30:46,100
you know a ladies this has been one of

1727
01:30:52,660 --> 01:30:48,650
the most fabulous shows even our

1728
01:30:55,240 --> 01:30:52,670
producer Tina Marie has chimed in

1729
01:30:56,680 --> 01:30:55,250
it's just been great great information

1730
01:30:58,750 --> 01:30:56,690
here and I do want to give you since we

1731
01:31:01,360 --> 01:30:58,760
only have a few minutes I want to give

1732
01:31:05,500 --> 01:31:01,370
you both the opportunity to tell us

1733
01:31:07,300 --> 01:31:05,510
where people can get your books and what

1734
01:31:10,709 --> 01:31:07,310
you're going to be doing in the future

1735
01:31:13,660 --> 01:31:10,719
so that we can book a return visit now

1736
01:31:17,080 --> 01:31:13,670
why do we start dr. Scott why don't we

1737
01:31:19,560 --> 01:31:17,090
start off with you my book is your host

1738
01:31:23,770 --> 01:31:19,570
today seven years of Wiseman

1739
01:31:28,510 --> 01:31:23,780
misinformation government cover-up and I

1740
01:31:31,330 --> 01:31:28,520
go through the UFO study chronologically

1741
01:31:32,890 --> 01:31:31,340
and as I go through I point out places

1742
01:31:36,459 --> 01:31:32,900
where there was a cover-up from the

1743
01:31:38,020 --> 01:31:36,469
government I have a lot of smoking guns

1744
01:31:40,180 --> 01:31:38,030
like we have some new information on

1745
01:31:42,790 --> 01:31:40,190
Roswell and different things it can be

1746
01:31:44,919 --> 01:31:42,800
ordered from Amazon come it isn't

1747
01:31:48,310 --> 01:31:44,929
published yet but it will be in a week

1748
01:31:53,740 --> 01:31:48,320
or two so it can be pre-ordered from

1749
01:31:57,030 --> 01:31:53,750
Amazon it is a it is a fabulous book I

1750
01:32:00,610 --> 01:31:57,040
highly recommend it as I do the the

1751
01:32:05,890 --> 01:32:00,620
books by our other guests Linda

1752
01:32:09,669 --> 01:32:05,900
Zimmerman anyway up dr. Scott can people

1753
01:32:12,100 --> 01:32:09,679
reach it you have a Facebook page or yes

1754
01:32:16,090 --> 01:32:12,110
I have a Facebook page and I'm working

1755
01:32:18,160 --> 01:32:16,100
on a website but it's not finished yet

1756
01:32:21,520 --> 01:32:18,170
all right but good luck good luck on

1757
01:32:24,130 --> 01:32:21,530
that anyway well we contacted through

1758
01:32:29,220 --> 01:32:24,140
the publisher - yeah yes but also - if

1759
01:32:32,050 --> 01:32:29,230
you go to a que cor but radio.com

1760
01:32:34,390 --> 01:32:32,060
there's a link we have links you know we

1761
01:32:36,610 --> 01:32:34,400
do everything that we can to hook up our

1762
01:32:37,840 --> 01:32:36,620
guests with the people that are

1763
01:32:40,510 --> 01:32:37,850
interested in what they have to say and

1764
01:32:44,560 --> 01:32:40,520
Linda you take it away you have the last

1765
01:32:48,130 --> 01:32:44,570
word tonight oh thank you I have three

1766
01:32:52,270 --> 01:32:48,140
UFO books in the night sky which the

1767
01:32:55,870 --> 01:32:52,280
film was based on and Hudson Valley UFOs

1768
01:32:59,530 --> 01:32:55,880
and just now this month more Hudson

1769
01:33:02,439 --> 01:32:59,540
Valley UFOs they're on Amazon Barnes and

1770
01:33:05,229 --> 01:33:02,449
Noble and just about every eBook format

1771
01:33:06,590 --> 01:33:05,239
known to mankind and if there was a

1772
01:33:09,980 --> 01:33:06,600
bookstore you could probably

1773
01:33:11,630 --> 01:33:09,990
we buy it locally yes you may have to

1774
01:33:15,440 --> 01:33:11,640
order it but they should be any

1775
01:33:21,250 --> 01:33:15,450
bookstore should be able to get it the

1776
01:33:23,570 --> 01:33:21,260
website to go to is go to Zim comm Geo

1777
01:33:30,250 --> 01:33:23,580
toz I am calm

1778
01:33:33,530 --> 01:33:30,260
all of my crazy interests and works are

1779
01:33:36,380 --> 01:33:33,540
are on that site you can link to all of

1780
01:33:38,870 --> 01:33:36,390
them and I have an author Facebook page

1781
01:33:42,200 --> 01:33:38,880
and I'm always happy to hear from people

1782
01:33:44,390 --> 01:33:42,210
especially UFO witnesses how can i how

1783
01:33:48,710 --> 01:33:44,400
about the how about the movie can we see

1784
01:33:53,390 --> 01:33:48,720
it streaming anywhere online ah I

1785
01:33:56,000 --> 01:33:53,400
believe it is on Amazon anywhere I read

1786
01:33:58,430 --> 01:33:56,010
yes I believe right where I saw it it

1787
01:34:01,490 --> 01:33:58,440
right to our it's two hours of the most

1788
01:34:04,670 --> 01:34:01,500
incredible information you will ever

1789
01:34:06,710 --> 01:34:04,680
ever see and I want to thank you both of

1790
01:34:09,710 --> 01:34:06,720
our guests tonight and has been a top

1791
01:34:11,660 --> 01:34:09,720
notch and show the space brothers have

1792
01:34:14,600 --> 01:34:11,670
telepathically told me that they are

1793
01:34:17,150 --> 01:34:14,610
very delighted by the content of the

1794
01:34:21,050 --> 01:34:17,160
program and if all goes well we'll see

1795
01:34:22,640 --> 01:34:21,060
you guys in PI English on the 20th and

1796
01:34:25,340 --> 01:34:22,650
help us get there

1797
01:34:29,030 --> 01:34:25,350
I saucer or by car and good night Tim

1798
01:34:32,560 --> 01:34:29,040
out there in Jasper Indiana and you Tina

1799
01:34:36,200 --> 01:34:32,570
Peter Helen and all our closest

1800
01:34:43,850 --> 01:34:36,210
associates good night everyone and look

1801
01:34:50,160 --> 01:34:46,800
you've been listening to explore in the

1802
01:34:53,939 --> 01:34:50,170
bazaar with hosts Timothy Beck knee

1803
01:34:56,879 --> 01:34:53,949
panting Swartz taking back the night by

1804
01:34:59,430 --> 01:34:56,889
jetting non-stop across the cosmos in

1805
01:35:02,720 --> 01:34:59,440
search of the truly bizarre and totally

1806
01:35:05,720 --> 01:35:02,730
unexplained with you as their cold

1807
01:35:11,030 --> 01:35:05,730
Thursday nights at 7:00 p.m. Pacific

1808
01:35:14,010 --> 01:35:11,040
10:00 p.m. on the K cor digital radio

1809
01:35:16,979 --> 01:35:14,020
for more information on exploring the

1810
01:35:19,620 --> 01:35:16,989
bizarre and host Timothy Beckley and

1811
01:35:22,800 --> 01:35:19,630
since walks check out their K cor

1812
01:35:28,859 --> 01:35:22,810
digital radio network follow their

1813
01:35:39,930 --> 01:35:28,869
YouTube channel @m r UFO 1100 explore